gente e genti

[Sybil]

Hi, there!

Can anyone explain the difference between "gente" and "genti"?
Does it have anything to do with the English "people" and "peoples" (=as in "nations"?)

And isn't "gente" a plural noun? I guess I just want to know why "La stazione `e piena di gente che arriva a Roma per lavorare" is correct. Why "gente che arriva" and not "gente che arrivano"? I'm obviously missing something. Please, help

 

[TiffanyC]

"la gente" means "the people" but it is single not plural. Therefore, it must be "la gente parla".If you'd like to use a plural form, you can say "le persone parlano" . Think of it like "la famiglia" - this is a group of people too, right? But it's also not plural - even in English.

 

[Alfry]

Hi, there!

Can anyone explain the difference between "gente" and "genti"?
Does it have anything to do with the English "people" and "peoples" (=as in "nations"?)

And isn't "gente" a plural noun? I guess I just want to know why "La stazione `e piena di gente che arriva a Roma per lavorare" is correct. Why "gente che arriva" and not "gente che arrivano"? I'm obviously missing something. Please, help

Interesting post, really...
when you say peoples as plural form of people we translate it in this way
popolo = people, popoli = peoples

in general gente has a wide wide wide meaning.
I'll try to simplify it:

- ancient Greek and Roman :group of fasmilies belonging to the same stock: la gente Giulia (it is an example)
- stock, extraction, people (popolo), nation(nazione): le genti celtiche = celtic people
- group of persons with a common feature: esser figlio di povera gente = to be son of poor people
- all persons, all peoples: il diritto delle genti = the right of peoples
- an unspecified number of persons considered to be a collective: le persone, gli altri in genere; I'm not talking about us, I'm talking about those persons (non sto parlando di noi, sto parlando di quella gente)

I don't know if it's clear enough, I tried!!!

 

[Silvia]

Sybil, the plural form is ok instead of popoli, but a little oldfashioned, you can find it in poetry for example. The singular gente fits in any case.

 

[Sybil]

Hi, all! Thank you for your replies. Very informative.

So "gente" is singular after all. Ha!

I see now that I need to get a different dictionary (or I need to learn how to use the one I have ;-). According to my dictionary "gente" has a plural form. It's described as "sf" and "pl" (sonstantino femminile e plurale) which confused me.

Anyway, speaking of "popolo," would it also translate as "population"?

And in a general statement such as "peoples of the world" should I use the somewhat old-fashioned "genti" or go with "popoli"? Does it depend on the context? For example, if I'm quoting numbers and talk about geography, would "popoli" be a better choice than "genti"? And, on the other hand, would "genti" work better in a mushy poem about brotherhood?

And, Tiffany, "la famiglia" is always singular in Italian? I see...
Got it! In English, it can be either one, but the plural form is not as common ("My family are loud.")

Again, thank you all for your great and fast replies... you guys rock! ;-)

 

[Alfry]

Anyway, speaking of "popolo," would it also translate as "population"?

And in a general statement such as "peoples of the world" should I use the somewhat old-fashioned "genti" or go with "popoli"?

Again, thank you all for your great and fast replies... you guys rock! ;-)

yes popolo can be fine, obviously it depends on the context

genti, as told before, is not so used... better popolazioni or popoli (this depends on the context too)

you are welcome

 

[mimitabby]

Hi, all! Thank you for your replies. Very informative.

A

And, Tiffany, "la famiglia" is always singular in Italian? I see...
Got it! In English, it can be either one, but the plural form is not as common ("My family are loud.")

Again, thank you all for your great and fast replies... you guys rock! ;-)

Sorry, i have never heard of "my family are loud " as proper english!!!

as the nice lady above said, family is single
mimi

 

[Sybil]

oh, "popolazioni"... another word...
so "population" is "popolazione"
ah... OK... OK...

thanks, Alfry!

 

[Alfry]

di nulla, è un piacere

 

[Sybil]

mimitabby, yes, the plural form exist but I never use it
I wonder if it's more common in British English

 

[mimitabby]

if someone says "my family are loud" they are leaving out
'the people" as in "the people in our family are loud."

I just checked the Oxford English dictionary, it has no exceptions
for this word being used as a plural except for "families"

 

[Alfry]

good to know
interesting

 

[Sybil]

mimitabby,

You made me pull out some grammar books which have been collecting dust, but it's OK I don't mind one bit. I don't want to confuse anyone, so thanks for bringing this up.

OK...

"Singular words which refer to groups of people (like family, team, goverment) can often be used as if they were plural, especially in British English.

My family have decided to move to Nottingham.

This generally happens when we think of the group as people, doing the sort of things that people do (for instance, making plans, wanting things, being disappointed, amusing themselves). In these cases, a plural verb is used, and the group is referred to by the pronouns they and who.

My family are wonderful. They do all they can for me. I don't know any other family who would do so much.
"How are the team?" - "Oh, they're very optimistic."
The goverment are hoping to ease import restrictions soon.

Examples of words and expressions which can be used in this way:

family, team, goverment, committee, club, class, school, union, choir, orchestra, staff, jury, firm, The B.B.C., The Bank of England, The Ministry of Defence, The Labour Party, The British Public, England (the football team), Liverpool (the football team)

Note that these words are not so often used with plural verbs when they have a(n), each, every, this or that before them. Compare:

The team are full of enthusiasm.
A team which is full enthusiasm is more likely to win. (Not: A team who are full...) "

Quoted from "Practical English Usage" by Michael Swan, Oxford University Press

You are right, mimitabby. These are singular nouns. They are singular nouns which can be used AS IF they were plural.

Thanks again!

 

[lsp]

I agree with mimitabby. I did not know that any dictionary allows for plural verbs to be used with singular words like family. But I do know that in America, if any of our forum friends learning English were to say "my family are loud" it would sound as if they were not proficient yet in our language. Correct? Seems so. But too obscure to recommend.

I add this because on occasion (in both English and Italian) I have seen answers contested, provoking the original responder to say, well, it may be archaic... speaking for myself, when learning a foreign language it may be nice to know of these terms, but I prefer to use commonly accepted terms and grammatical constructions.

 

[Silvia]

According to my dictionary "gente" has a plural form. It's described as "sf" and "pl" cross:sonstantino sostantivo femminile e plurale) which confused me.

Sybil your dictionary is good. As we said both forms exist.

Anyway, speaking of "popolo," would it also translate as "population"?

No.

And in a general statement such as "peoples of the world" should I use the somewhat old-fashioned "genti" or go with "popoli"?

I thought we made that clear already. You'd say popoli, of course.

Does it depend on the context? For example, if I'm quoting numbers and talk about geography, would "popoli" be a better choice than "genti"?

No.

And, on the other hand, would "genti" work better in a mushy poem about brotherhood?

Yes.

yes popolo can be fine, obviously it depends on the context
genti, as told before, is not so used... better popolazioni or popoli (this depends on the context too)
you are welcome

Alfry, when did you happen to use gente instead of popolazione?

 

[mimitabby]

I agree with mimitabby. I did not know that any dictionary allows for plural verbs to be used with singular words like family. But I do know that in America, if any of our forum friends learning English were to say "my family are loud" it would sound as if they were not proficient yet in our language. Correct? Seems so. But too obscure to recommend.

I add this because on occasion (in both English and Italian) I have seen answers contested, provoking the original responder to say, well, it may be archaic... speaking for myself, when learning a foreign language it may be nice to know of these terms, but I prefer to use commonly accepted terms and grammatical constructions.

Thank you. It's hard enough to speak a second language well, but to start worrying about or using obscure syntax is only going to make you more misunderstood. I would not say "My family are well" during a job interview
if i was trying to impress them with my command of the english language, for example.

 

[Alfry]

Sybil your dictionary is good. As we said both forms exist.


No.


I thought we made that clear already. You'd say popoli, of course.


No.
Yes.


Alfry, when did you happen to use gente instead of popolazione?

let me disagree with you about your first No. the answer was popolo-popolazione
(
Anyway, speaking of "popolo," would it also translate as "population"?
)

from Garzanti:
il complesso degli abitanti di un luogo: la popolazione delle isole; la densità della popolazione | popolo, nazione in genere: una popolazione molto civile.

then I'd like to disagree the second too:
(...if I'm quoting numbers and talk about geography, would "popoli" be a better choice than "genti"?)
I'd say "I popoli della terra" better then "le genti della terra"

 

[Silvia]

Alfry, I really am lost now! Forse ci capiamo meglio in italiano

popolo = people
popolazione = population

Inoltre, nell'ultimo esempio che hai citato non hai risposto alla domanda di Sybil. Lei voleva sapere se deve usare popoli quando parla di numeri e geografia:
"Milano ha una popolazione di 2 milioni di abitanti" (adesso ho sparato un numero a caso, non so precisamente) e non "Milano ha un popolo di 2 milioni di abitanti"

Giusto?

 

[Alfry]

si si, giusto
avevo inteso la sua domanda in senso generale... ci sono situazioni in cui popolo o popolazione sono usati ugualmente.
- In svizzare vivono differenti popoli/popolazioni

dipende dal contesto.

sarebbe meglio che ci facesse un esempio, sarebbe meglio un bel po' di esempi

it would be better that Sybil give us some examples.

 

[Sybil]

lsp and mimitabby, interesting discussion

We don't use "family as a plural noun" in American English and to us it sounds obscure. Sure. I heard British speakers use it, however, and that's why I mentioned it in the first place . Ain't it interesting? I think that it's an excellent example of how rich and unique the English language is in general. And how it varies from place to place

 

[Sybil]

Silvia, thanks for taking the time to answer my questions
I read you loud and clear