gift from God

August2

Senior Member
Italian
Здравствуйте!

Speaking at the Global Policy Forum in Yaroslavl, Berlusconi said: “Sono persone che costituiscono un dono del Signore al vostro popolo”.
In the English press: "Berlusconi said that Medvedev and Putin were gifts from God to the Russian people.

In the Russian press the original sentence was translated:
“Эти люди даны Господом Богом вашей стране!

My questions: what about this variant?
1. Эти люди дары Бога / дары Господа Бога вашей стране!

And what about my modified variants:
2. Этот человек дан Господом Богом нашей стране!
3. Этот человек безоговорочное дарение/ подарок Господа нашей стране!

Thanks for your attention.
 
  • morzh

    Banned
    USA
    Russian
    Вот как это перевели уже украинские русскоязычные СМИ:

    >>
    Шоу Берлускони в России: "Путин - подарок Господа"


    http://news.liga.net/smi/NP100181.html

    >>когда Берлускони произнес самую эффектную фразу о российской политике: "Медведев и Путин - подарки Господа вашей стране".

    ---------


    As for my personal opinion - I would use a stable expression "ниспослан Богом/ниспослан свыше"
     

    August2

    Senior Member
    Italian
    Thank you, Maroseika and Morzh.

    I am aware that the original sentence itself is rather “unnatural” from many points of view.
    So, the original sentence could be: “Эти люди ниспослани/послани вам свыше”~ they were sent to you from above.

    Can I say “ When Adam saw Eve he joyfully said: this human being дан Господом Богом”?
    To my ear “подарок Господа” sounds a bit sacrilegious or sarcastic in this context (and in the other one – Yaroslavl’s - too).
     

    Maroseika

    Moderator
    Russian
    So, the original sentence could be: “Эти люди ниспосланы/посланы вам свыше”~ they were sent to you from above.

    Can I say “ When Adam saw Eve he joyfully said: this human being дан Господом Богом”?
    If human being - существо, it will be дано богом.
    Yes, you can say this but better "Это существо дано мне богом".
    To my ear “подарок Господа” sounds a bit sacrilegious or sarcastic in this context .
    To my ear this is just not in Russian.
     

    morzh

    Banned
    USA
    Russian
    To my ear “подарок Господа” sounds a bit sacrilegious or sarcastic in this context . --=-
    To my ear this is just not in Russian.

    В русском есть выражение "Дар Божий" или "Дар Господень".

    Любовь - дар Божий. (Love - God's gift)
    Дети - дар Божий. Children - gift from God.

    Но так же это выражение означает "дар" в смысле "талант, способности".

    "У тебя Божий дар" - you have a gift from God (you have great talent, like to music, math, writing)
     

    August2

    Senior Member
    Italian
    So, a really sacrilegious/blasphemous/sarcastic sentence, at least to many Italian ears, might be:
    Сильвио - дар Божий (or perhaps, дар Люцифера).
     

    galaxy man

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    I am not here to correct the Russian translation, and even less to pretend that I understand the Italian original, but from the situational context wouldn't it be possible to interpret Berlusconi's seemingly religious expression as something carrying a simple and entirely secular meaning? Like the very similar English term: godsend, of which the American Urban Dictionary says this:

    1. godsend
    When a situation is tense and unexpectedly something or someone arrives that completely eases the situation. In other words, a life-saver.
    If Kate can make it tonight to help out at the banquet, she would be a godsend!

    2. godsend
    A secular term describing someone or something exceptionally good
    This sephora blush is a godsend, you should try it;
     

    Old Raft

    Member
    Polish
    So, a sarcastic sentence,...to...Italian ears, might be:
    Сильвио - дар Божий.
    In today's Britain, or at least in the Southeast of England, the phrase "God's gift" is almost invariably used as a sarcasm (as in "he's a God's gift to women"). Surely it's the same in Italy?
    So I should think that when speaking of Mesrs. Putin and Medvedev, with their particular backgrounds and characters, Berlusconi was fully aware of the sarcastic interpretation. Whatever you think of him, he's a man of the world and he's not into licking anyone's behind.
     

    August2

    Senior Member
    Italian
    In today's Britain, or at least in the Southeast of England, the phrase "God's gift" is almost invariably used as a sarcasm (as in "he's a God's gift to women"). Surely it's the same in Italy? Yes, it is.
    So I should think that when speaking of Mesrs. Putin and Medvedev, with their particular backgrounds and characters, Berlusconi was fully aware of the sarcastic interpretation. Whatever you think of him, he's a man of the world and he's not into licking anyone's behind.
    From a strictly linguistic/grammatical point of view, I think that there is a perfect equivalence between the two sentences
    Дети - дар Божий and Сильвио - дар Божий.

    From a broader “linguistic” point of view, I would be more than willing to draw a (piteous) veil – piteous, from pietas.
     

    dec-sev

    Senior Member
    Russian
    Hello, August.
    It's clear from your previous posts that you have a bias against the cavaliere ;) But you seem to be the only person here who have read or have heard the original speach (in Italian) and it's up to you to judge if the phrase sounded ironical / sarcastic or not. If it's the former neither “Эти люди даны Господом Богом вашей стране!" nor "ниспослан Богом" (without further context) will render the irony or sarcasm, I believe.
     

    August2

    Senior Member
    Italian
    Hello, dec-sev!

    Thank you for your strictly linguistic remarks and suggestions.
    I think I’ve learnt some interesting Russian expressions about “gift from God”.

    My only regret is not being able to understand the awfulness of the “Russian” expression подарки Господа.
     

    Natalisha

    Senior Member
    Russian
    My only regret is not being able to understand the awfulness of the “Russian” expression подарки Господа.
    Questa frase non è così terribile. Ma l'espressione "Медведев и Путин - подарки Господа" suona male, come, per esempio, in Italiano "Medvedev e Putin sono i regali dal Signore".
     

    August2

    Senior Member
    Italian
    Questa frase non è così terribile. Ma l'espressione "Медведев и Путин - подарки Господа" suona male, come, per esempio, in Italiano "Medvedev e Putin sono i regali dal Signore".
    Sì, penso di aver capito.
    In italiano, la frase "Medvedev e Putin sono (come) regali del Signore" suona veramente male/buffo. Ma è una frase corretta dal punto di vista grammaticale.

    Invece la frase "Medvedev e Putin sono/rappresentano doni del Signore", beh ... è imbarazzante ;)

    Grazie per la spiegazione, Natalisha.
     

    morzh

    Banned
    USA
    Russian
    Sì, penso di aver capito.
    In italiano, la frase "Medvedev e Putin sono (come) regali del Signore" suona veramente male/buffo. Ma è una frase corretta dal punto di vista grammaticale.

    Invece la frase "Medvedev e Putin sono/rappresentano doni del Signore", beh ... è imbarazzante ;)

    Grazie per la spiegazione, Natalisha.
    Interesting. In English, same as in Russian, (here we would probably say "Godsent" in this context - something unexpectedly good and helpful, that comes right in time) there isn't really any mockery to the phrase. Unless one uses tone/mimics that makes it sarcastic, but then there are very few expression with a positive meaning that cannot be made into sarcasm when said in a particular way.
     

    dec-sev

    Senior Member
    Russian
    Сказать "подарки Бога" будет примерно то же самое, что и "дары Санта-Клауса" :)
     
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