gift from God

Discussion in 'Русский (Russian)' started by August2, Sep 15, 2010.

  1. August2 Senior Member

    Italian
    Здравствуйте!

    Speaking at the Global Policy Forum in Yaroslavl, Berlusconi said: “Sono persone che costituiscono un dono del Signore al vostro popolo”.
    In the English press: "Berlusconi said that Medvedev and Putin were gifts from God to the Russian people.

    In the Russian press the original sentence was translated:
    “Эти люди даны Господом Богом вашей стране!

    My questions: what about this variant?
    1. Эти люди дары Бога / дары Господа Бога вашей стране!

    And what about my modified variants:
    2. Этот человек дан Господом Богом нашей стране!
    3. Этот человек безоговорочное дарение/ подарок Господа нашей стране!

    Thanks for your attention.
     
  2. Maroseika Moderator

    Moscow
    Russian
    Only # 2 sounds more or less natural.
    More common saying is он послан (ниспослан) нам свыше.
     
  3. morzh

    morzh Banned

    USA
    Russian
    Вот как это перевели уже украинские русскоязычные СМИ:

    >>
    Шоу Берлускони в России: "Путин - подарок Господа"


    http://news.liga.net/smi/NP100181.html

    >>когда Берлускони произнес самую эффектную фразу о российской политике: "Медведев и Путин - подарки Господа вашей стране".

    ---------


    As for my personal opinion - I would use a stable expression "ниспослан Богом/ниспослан свыше"
     
  4. August2 Senior Member

    Italian
    Thank you, Maroseika and Morzh.

    I am aware that the original sentence itself is rather “unnatural” from many points of view.
    So, the original sentence could be: “Эти люди ниспослани/послани вам свыше”~ they were sent to you from above.

    Can I say “ When Adam saw Eve he joyfully said: this human being дан Господом Богом”?
    To my ear “подарок Господа” sounds a bit sacrilegious or sarcastic in this context (and in the other one – Yaroslavl’s - too).
     
  5. Maroseika Moderator

    Moscow
    Russian
    If human being - существо, it will be дано богом.
    Yes, you can say this but better "Это существо дано мне богом".
    To my ear this is just not in Russian.
     
  6. August2 Senior Member

    Italian
    Thank you, Maroseika, for your corrections and your observation about "подарок".
     
  7. morzh

    morzh Banned

    USA
    Russian

    В русском есть выражение "Дар Божий" или "Дар Господень".

    Любовь - дар Божий. (Love - God's gift)
    Дети - дар Божий. Children - gift from God.

    Но так же это выражение означает "дар" в смысле "талант, способности".

    "У тебя Божий дар" - you have a gift from God (you have great talent, like to music, math, writing)
     
  8. August2 Senior Member

    Italian
    So, a really sacrilegious/blasphemous/sarcastic sentence, at least to many Italian ears, might be:
    Сильвио - дар Божий (or perhaps, дар Люцифера).
     
  9. galaxy man

    galaxy man Senior Member

    Hungarian
    I am not here to correct the Russian translation, and even less to pretend that I understand the Italian original, but from the situational context wouldn't it be possible to interpret Berlusconi's seemingly religious expression as something carrying a simple and entirely secular meaning? Like the very similar English term: godsend, of which the American Urban Dictionary says this:

    1. godsend
    When a situation is tense and unexpectedly something or someone arrives that completely eases the situation. In other words, a life-saver.
    If Kate can make it tonight to help out at the banquet, she would be a godsend!

    2. godsend
    A secular term describing someone or something exceptionally good
    This sephora blush is a godsend, you should try it;
     
  10. dec-sev Senior Member

    Sevastopo;
    Russian
    Можно пригласить переводчика на ветку "pitfalls of translating literally" :)
     
  11. Old Raft Member

    Poland
    Polish
    In today's Britain, or at least in the Southeast of England, the phrase "God's gift" is almost invariably used as a sarcasm (as in "he's a God's gift to women"). Surely it's the same in Italy?
    So I should think that when speaking of Mesrs. Putin and Medvedev, with their particular backgrounds and characters, Berlusconi was fully aware of the sarcastic interpretation. Whatever you think of him, he's a man of the world and he's not into licking anyone's behind.
     
  12. August2 Senior Member

    Italian
    From a strictly linguistic/grammatical point of view, I think that there is a perfect equivalence between the two sentences
    Дети - дар Божий and Сильвио - дар Божий.

    From a broader “linguistic” point of view, I would be more than willing to draw a (piteous) veil – piteous, from pietas.
     
  13. dec-sev Senior Member

    Sevastopo;
    Russian
    Hello, August.
    It's clear from your previous posts that you have a bias against the cavaliere ;) But you seem to be the only person here who have read or have heard the original speach (in Italian) and it's up to you to judge if the phrase sounded ironical / sarcastic or not. If it's the former neither “Эти люди даны Господом Богом вашей стране!" nor "ниспослан Богом" (without further context) will render the irony or sarcasm, I believe.
     
  14. August2 Senior Member

    Italian
    Hello, dec-sev!

    Thank you for your strictly linguistic remarks and suggestions.
    I think I’ve learnt some interesting Russian expressions about “gift from God”.

    My only regret is not being able to understand the awfulness of the “Russian” expression подарки Господа.
     
  15. Natalisha Senior Member

    Russian
    Questa frase non è così terribile. Ma l'espressione "Медведев и Путин - подарки Господа" suona male, come, per esempio, in Italiano "Medvedev e Putin sono i regali dal Signore".
     
  16. August2 Senior Member

    Italian
    Sì, penso di aver capito.
    In italiano, la frase "Medvedev e Putin sono (come) regali del Signore" suona veramente male/buffo. Ma è una frase corretta dal punto di vista grammaticale.

    Invece la frase "Medvedev e Putin sono/rappresentano doni del Signore", beh ... è imbarazzante ;)

    Grazie per la spiegazione, Natalisha.
     
  17. morzh

    morzh Banned

    USA
    Russian
    Interesting. In English, same as in Russian, (here we would probably say "Godsent" in this context - something unexpectedly good and helpful, that comes right in time) there isn't really any mockery to the phrase. Unless one uses tone/mimics that makes it sarcastic, but then there are very few expression with a positive meaning that cannot be made into sarcasm when said in a particular way.
     
  18. dec-sev Senior Member

    Sevastopo;
    Russian
    Сказать "подарки Бога" будет примерно то же самое, что и "дары Санта-Клауса" :)
     

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