give someone the bum's rush

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Pyrocles

Member
English
In English, to give someone the bum's rush is to send him unceremoniously on his way, to get rid of him as expeditiously as possible. Is there a French equivalent?
 
  • Charlie Parker

    Senior Member
    English Canada
    The Robert & Collins dictionary gives mettre quelqu'un en quarantaine or à l'index. I'm not convinced on the second suggestion because under index the same dictionary gives mettre à l'index "to blacklist sb/sth."
     
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    Reliure

    Senior Member
    To me : " mettre quelqu'un en quarantaine " or "mettre quelqu'un à l'index" means that you set him appart.


    This would need confirmation because I might have misuunderstood your definition, Pyrocles, but I wonder if : "to give someone the bum's rush" wouldn't be :
    • "renvoyer quelqu'un à ses chères études (showing superiority to someone insinuating that he said something stupid because he is not qualified enough uncompetent, or for one reason or another lacks of legitimacy)
    • "envoyer bouler quelqu'un" (to reject rudely someone or his arguments disrespectfully)
    ?
     

    Pyrocles

    Member
    English
    So "renvoyer quelqu'un à ses chères études" would be roughly equivalent to "send someone about his business" or "send someone on his way" but more pointedly suggesting that he is out of his depth? However, if I understand, renvoyer by itself would not imply any disrespect. Would "dismiss" or "send away" be possible translations for renvoyer?

    —Tu me renvoies déjà?
    —Je ne te renvoie pas. Tu peux rester encore un peu.

    What about congédier? Is there any significant difference in tone, attitude, respect between renvoyer and congédier?

    —Le comte! Il attendra.
    —Il vaudrait peut-être mieux le congédier tout à fait.
     

    Charlie Parker

    Senior Member
    English Canada
    Mettre quelqu'un en quarantaine means to "quarantine someone." A bum, according the Oxford English Dictionary is "a habitual loafer or tramp; a lazy, dissolute person." Other definitions are "vagrant" or "hobo." To give someone the bum's rush is to forcibly eject a person from a public place. The example would be a vagrant in a nice restaurant being hustled out the door. The owner doesn't want someone like that in his restaurant. Perhaps he cannot afford to pay.
     

    mgarizona

    Senior Member
    US - American English
    Congédier is at the other end of the spectrum, politeness-wise ... closer to "dismiss."

    Most 'plain'ly: foutre quelqu'un à la rue (par force)
     

    Charlie Parker

    Senior Member
    English Canada
    To me it doesn't not suggest violence. It could be used figuratively. For example, I went into a jewelry store. The items were all so expensive and when I started asking about some of the less expensive ones, I felt I was getting the bum's rush. They just wanted to get rid of me when they realized I didn't have a lot of money to spend.
     

    mgarizona

    Senior Member
    US - American English
    I think CP's is a very attenuated vision of the phrase as I know it. The OED defines it as "forcible ejection" and gives these citations:

    1925 L. O'Flaherty Informer iii. 46 They might give him ‘the bum's rush’, breaking his neck silently like a rabbit's neck. 1931 E. Linklater Juan in Amer. ii. xv. 167, I told him I'd give him the bum's rush if he tried to pull that stuff on me. 1959 M. Cumberland Murmurs in Rue Morgue xxxi. 176 Chotin was being given what the vulgar term the ‘bum's rush’. He was down the steps ... through the gate and flat on his back on the pavement.
     

    Charlie Parker

    Senior Member
    English Canada
    Thank you for these citations mgarizona. I think probably I have only known the "bum's rush" (not that I have ever received it;)) in its attenuated form, that is, hustling someone out of a restaurant, escorting someone to the door. The examples you give are from an earlier period and are perhaps more likely to reflect the original meaning of the expression. I wonder if in the course of time "the bum's rush" became softened or attenuated, as you say. Perhaps it is used in a more figurative sense today.
     

    BAlfson

    Senior Member
    USA - anglais
    I agree that it meant that in the 20s and 30s in the US, but don't you think it's now used virtually exclusively as in CP's example?

    Cheers - Bob
     

    Nicomon

    Senior Member
    Français, Québec ♀
    Hello,

    Not being familiar with the expression, I wonder about the solutions given in the Robert & Collins, namely:
    mettre qqn, qqch. à l’index
    Condamner, exclure qqn, qqch

    mettre qqn en quarantaine, tenir qqn en quarantaine
    [Figuré] Exclure qqn d’un groupe social.
    Reading this, I'd understand it as being excluded/set apart, just like Reliure wrote.
     
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    Nicomon

    Senior Member
    Français, Québec ♀
    Nicomon, as discussed above, R&C is completely incorrect; I guess that two entries were mixed up.
    I have read what's discussed above.

    I said I was unfamiliar with the expression, so reading the R&C, I would have understood it as "being excluded from somewhere" i.e. unwanted/dismissed.

    So either they're "completely incorrect" or the expression can be interpreted... and translated... many different ways, depending on the exact context.
     

    mgarizona

    Senior Member
    US - American English
    Of course context is king. But then I would never assume that something like "On m'a foutu dans la rue" could not , given every man's god-given right to hyperbole, be used in an attenuated sense itself.
     

    akaAJ

    Senior Member
    American English, Yiddish
    Think pf someone being seized by the collar and the seat of his pants, frogmarched unceremoniously out the door and down the stairs. Since contempt is implicit, the gentler figurative meaning of CP can be accepted, but haste and short shrift are always components.
     

    mgarizona

    Senior Member
    US - American English
    Think pf someone being seized by the collar and the seat of his pants, frogmarched unceremoniously out the door and down the stairs. Since contempt is implicit, the gentler figurative meaning of CP can be accepted, but haste and short shrift are always components.
    THANK YOU THANK YOU! "frogmarched" ... my new favorite word!
     

    BAlfson

    Senior Member
    USA - anglais
    Right, I apologize if I came across as abrupt - your contributions are always well-conceived and expressed. My frustration was with the obvious (to an American) error in R&C. I'm embarrassed that I seemed to minimize your suggestion.

    For me, exclure is a bit of a faux-ami as the sense of "expel" is little-known and rarely-used in American. "Being excluded" implies "not aloud to enter" instead of "being removed/sent from" which is the sense of "bum's rush." Mettre quelqu'un à l’index has, in some sense, the idea of putting someone out, but it has no parallel at all in the feel or heritage of "bum's rush."

    I can't imagine that such a glaring error can be anything other than an error of composition in the physical preparation of the book.

    Cheers - Bob
     

    BAlfson

    Senior Member
    USA - anglais
    THANK YOU THANK YOU! "frogmarched" ... my new favorite word!
    Indeed! :)

    Of course context is king. But then I would never assume that something like "On m'a foutu dans la rue" could not , given every man's god-given right to hyperbole, be used in an attenuated sense itself.
    Yea-but;), the real question is whether the meaning of "bums rush" has changed. In some dictionaries, "forcible ejection from a place" is the only definition, so that would work in favor of your first post here: flanquer qn à la porte. I just don't think that's done anymore in these litigous times, and thus that the meaning has changed (unfortunately for anyone that reads older books).

    Cheers - Bob
     

    Cath.S.

    Senior Member
    français de France
    I agree with CP, that's definitely a faulty translation.

    It's more flanquer qn à la porte.
    Or
    flanquer dehors (that's the one I'd use).
    Foutre might be a bit too rude compared to the English.

    In the same line, we sometimes say mettre qqn dehors manu militari, which implies coercion.
     

    littlestar79

    New Member
    French
    Hello

    Would any of these help ? " flanquer quelqu'un dehors" "flanquer quelqu'un à la porte" (sans autre forme de procès)
     

    Pyrocles

    Member
    English
    Nevertheless, I'm happy that the discussion ended here, for these are, for my purposes, the most pertinent translations. I will treasure both "flanquer à la porte" and "frogmarched." The main thing I learned from this exchange is that "the bum's rush" is a great deal too salty to translate "Tu me renvoies déjà?" I must render it, "You're sending me away already?"
     
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