Goal, goalkeeper, to score (to mark?) a goal

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ThomasK

Senior Member
Belgium, Dutch
I am just wondering what words you use to refer to those three - and some background on the origin and other uses of the word are welcome.

My starting point was Italian (and Spanish): a goalkeeper is a portiro, I believe, Seems so funny: goalkeepers are not supposed to open their "gate"/ door at any time, I think. But OK;

Dutch:
(a) Waar is het doel? (Where is the goal? - also the word for objective, target, purpose)
(b) De doelman, - vrouw/ keeper (the goal man/ woman)
(c) Ik heb een doelpunt gescoord (I have scored a goal/ ...)
 
  • symposium

    Senior Member
    Italian - Italy
    In Italian the goal in a football game is called "porta", i.e. "door": the goalkeeper is a "portiere", i.e. a "doorman" or "door-keeper". The actual score in a football game is called "goal" (sometimes italianized as "gol"), so "to score a goal" is "fare un goal (to make a goal)" o "segnare un goal (to score a goal)".
     
    In Greek one's objective, target, purpose in life is «σκοπός» [skɔˈpɔs] (masc.) < Classical deverbative masc. noun «σκοπός» skŏpós --> spy, guard, scout, goal, purpose, o-grade of deponent v. «σκέπτομαι» sképtŏmai̯ --> to look around, look back, spy, contemplate, consider, survey (PIE *speḱ- to see sharply, spy cf Skt. पश्यति (paśyati), to examine, view, Lat. specere, Av. spasiieiti, to see).

    The goal in football is usually «τέρμα» [ˈter.ma] (neut.) < CLassical neut. noun «τέρμα» térmă --> finish (of a race-course), end, highest point (PIE *terh₂- to cross cf Skt. तर्मन् (tarman), top of sacrificial post, Lat. terminus). Often the transliterations of Eng. goal «γκολ» [ˈgɔl], or goalpost «γκολπόστ» [gɔlˈpɔst] (neut. nom. pl. indecl.), are used instead.

    The goalkeeper is «τερματοφύλακας» [ter.ma.tɔˈfi.la.kas] (masc. & fem.) = compound, oblique «τερματο-» [ter.ma.tɔ-] as first part in compounds, of neut. noun «τέρμα» [ˈter.ma] (see above) + masc./fem. «φύλακας» [ˈfi.la.kas] --> guard, attendant, warden, custodian < Classical 3rd declension masc. noun «φύλαξ/φύλακος» pʰúlăks (nom. sing.)/pʰúlăkŏs (gen. sing.) --> watcher, guard, sentry, protector (of unknown etymology, Beekes considers it Pre-Greek).

    To score a goal: «Σκοράρω γκολ» [skɔˈɾa.ɾɔ ˈgɔl] or «σημειώνω τέρμα» [si.miˈɔ.nɔ ˈter.ma] --> to achieve a goal.
    The former is colloquial, the latter is more formal. «Σκοράρω» is from the Eng. v. to score. The v. «σημειώνω» [si.miˈɔ.nɔ] --> to put a mark, write a note, pay attention, achieve (an outcome) is denominative < Classsical neut. noun «σημεῖον» sēmeî̯ŏn --> mark, sign, toke, omen, standard/flag (of unknown etymology).
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    In Italian the goal in a football game is called "porta", i.e. "door": the goalkeeper is a "portiere", i.e. a "doorman" or "door-keeper". The actual score in a football game is called "goal" (sometimes italianized as "gol"), so "to score a goal" is "fare un goal (to make a goal)" o "segnare un goal (to score a goal)".
    I love the association of goals with doors (or gates) as we consider it more like a basket or something of the kind, at least a target.

    I am beginning to think that scoring, marquer un but in French, segnare, σημειώνω, all refer to marking ( sign) on a board. Could that be true?

    In Greek one's objective, target, purpose in life is «» [skɔˈpɔs] (masc.) < Classical deverbative masc. noun «σκοπός» skŏpós --> spy, guard, scout, goal, purpose, o-grade of deponent v. «σκέπτομαι» sképtŏmai̯ --> to look around, look back, spy, contemplate, consider, survey (PIE *speḱ- to see sharply, spy cf Skt. पश्यति (paśyati), to examine, view, Lat. specere, Av. spasiieiti, to see).

    The goal in football is usually «» [ˈter.ma] (neut.) < CLassical neut. noun «τέρμα» térmă --> finish (of a race-course), end, highest point (PIE *terh₂- to cross cf Skt. तर्मन् (tarman), top of sacrificial post, Lat. terminus). Often the transliterations of Eng. goal «γκολ» [ˈgɔl], or goalpost «γκολπόστ» [gɔlˈpɔst] (neut. nom. pl. indecl.), are used instead.
    That reminds me, @apmoy70 :
    - τερματοφύλακας reminds me of a Torwart in German, doelwachter, an older word in Dutch, all meaning "goal guard" or "goal keeper"
    - can a σκοπός not be called a τέρμα : a target as some kind of end?
     
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    sound shift

    Senior Member
    English - England
    The "door" imagery is present in pronounced form in the Turkish word for the goal: kale, which means "castle". The goalkeeper is the kaleici: the keeper of the castle, which he must of course defend.
     

    Welsh_Sion

    Senior Member
    Welsh - Northern
    Plenty of Welsh words for 'goal' in the sense of 'objective'.

    So let's stick to football/soccer.

    gôl - a goal (from English)
    gôl geidwad - goalkeeper (Lit. 'goal guardian')
    golwr - goalkeeper (Lit. 'goal' + Wel. 'man'. Sorry, females)

    sgorio gôl - to score a goal (from English)
    sgoriwr (gôl) - a goal scorer (from English + Wel. 'man')

    You know, I presume, @ThomasK, that English 'to score' is actually to make a hick (usually in wood) in order to render a count ('to make a score'/'scoring'.) See Cambridge Dictionary: 'To score' to make a mark or cut on the surface of something hard with a pointed tool, or to draw a line through writing:

    Subsequently, in older English, but still current in some expressions, score = 20 (cf. 'three score years and ten is the life of Man in the Bible, i.e. 70 years.)

    This could go back to a Celtic substrate, as the traditional way of counting in Welsh is vigesimal - i.e. base 20. (That's probably a thread in itself).

    _____________________

    I love the association of goals with doors (or gates) as we consider it more like a basket or something of the kind, at least a target.

    Colloquial English: A goal ('the object that is defended' NOT 'the point earned') = 'the onion basket'
     
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    Welsh_Sion

    Senior Member
    Welsh - Northern
    My apologies to all females and @Stoggler.

    GyrA ('y Brws') does indeed refer to 'golwraig' as a feminine form for a 'female goalkeeper'. Here's me thinking something like that had to be invented. Cf Bruce's comments on -wr and -wraig nouns:

    "Nouns ending in -wr/ydd in Welsh, corresponding generally to nouns in -or/-er in English, are always masculine, even when referring to women; likewise nouns such as meddyg, doctor, plentyn, child and so on. However, nouns in -ydd may have a corresponding feminine form in -yddes, plural -yddesau. Likewise for every noun ending in -wr there may be a corresponding feminine form in -wraig, plural -wragedd. While some are very commonly used, others are much less so, and some exist only in principle. They have been listed where considered to be in use."

    Personally, I think a form like gyrwraig ('female driver') can 'exist only in principle'. But, if others use it, and are happy to use it in contradistinction to gyrrwr ('male/generic driver'), then so be it.

    Cyfarwyddiadau’r geiriadur print | Geiriadur yr Academi (geiriaduracademi.org)
     
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    Awwal12

    Senior Member
    Russian
    Russian:
    goal (football) - гол (gol)
    goalkeeper - вратарь (vratár', lit. "gater")
    to score a goal - забить гол (zabít' gól, lit. ~~"to beat a goal in").
     

    Circunflejo

    Senior Member
    Castellano de Castilla
    Spanish:

    Goal: Well, in English it can be both what you score on a goal: gol, tanto, diana... and the goal itself: portería, puerta, meta, arco...
    Goalkeeper: portero (the one in charge of the portería), guardameta (literally the guard of the goal), cancerbero (the mythologic Cerberus), arquero (the one in charge of the arco).
    Score a goal: marcar un gol/tanto/diana...
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    Plenty of Welsh words for 'goal' in the sense of 'objective'.
    But when I was younger, I started a thread on that here... Topic: goal = end?

    Spanish:

    Goal: Well, in English it can be both what you score on a goal: gol, tanto, diana... and the goal itself: portería, puerta, meta, arco...
    Goalkeeper: portero (the one in charge of the portería), guardameta (literally the guard of the goal), cancerbero (the mythologic Cerberus), arquero (the one in charge of the arco).
    Score a goal: marcar un gol/tanto/diana...
    Some questions on some words, if I may:
    - porteria = puerta? Something like a gate?
    - arco: refer to the U-shape of the goal?
    - meta: the finish?
    - tanto: something like marker?
    - diana: the bull's eye?

    to score a goal - забить гол (zabít' gól, lit. ~~"to beat a goal in").
    Can we interpret that as kicking the ball into the goal? (kicking being something like beating but using one's feet???)
     
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    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    You know, I presume, @ThomasK, that English 'to score' is actually to make a hick (usually in wood) in order to render a count ('to make a score'/'scoring'.) See Cambridge Dictionary: 'To score' to make a mark or cut on the surface of something hard with a pointed tool, or to draw a line through writing:

    Subsequently, in older English, but still current in some expressions, score = 20 (cf. 'three score years and ten is the life of Man in the Bible, i.e. 70 years.) This could go back to a Celtic substrate, as the traditional way of counting in Welsh is vigesimal - i.e. base 20. (That's probably a thread in itself).

    _____________________

    I love the association of goals with doors (or gates) as we consider it more like a basket or something of the kind, at least a target.

    Colloquial English: A goal ('the object that is defended' NOT 'the point earned') = 'the onion basket'
    The hick: something like these?

    To score: I suppose the first meaning will be something like to carve (...), but then the sheep may have been counted by (...) 20? (etymonline.com). No trace of that in Germanic languages, I guess...

    After gates and castle gates we now also have an onion basket! Great!)
     

    Awwal12

    Senior Member
    Russian
    Can we interpret that as kicking the ball into the goal? (kicking being something like beating but using one's feet???)
    Actually, English 'beat' doesn't necessarily imply using hands only at all. Of course, there are some semantic and aspectual nuances, but the main thing is that the Russian counterpart of 'kick' is being used much less eagerly - more generalized verbs are usually preferred.
     
    Spanish:

    Goal: Well, in English it can be both what you score on a goal: gol, tanto, diana... and the goal itself: portería, puerta, meta, arco...
    Goalkeeper: portero (the one in charge of the portería), guardameta (literally the guard of the goal), cancerbero (the mythologic Cerberus), arquero (the one in charge of the arco).
    Score a goal: marcar un gol/tanto/diana...
    Often sport-section newspaper titles, used in the past this kind of poetic, grandiloquence language:
    "So-and-so was like Cerberus guarding his hearth".
    The word for goal then, was «ἑστία» [eˈsti.a] (fem.) --> hearth; in Ancient Greek culture, the central altar in the middle of the house was the «ἑστία» hĕstíā (fem.), the focal point of the house, where a fire was always kept alive as an offering to the goddess «Ἑστία» Hĕstíā (Lat. Vesta), protectress of the household.
     

    Circunflejo

    Senior Member
    Castellano de Castilla
    porteria = puerta? Something like a gate?
    Portería is the place in which is located the portero and the portero could be understood as the guy in carge of the puerta; i.e.: the guy who says who/what passes through the door and who/what doesn't (the best example would be the one at the entry of a discoteque). Due to the shape of soccer goals, it makes more sense to translate puerta to English like gate instead of the usual door.
    arco: refer to the U-shape of the goal?
    Most likely but it's a term used in the Americas and I'm not too familiar with it.
    meta: the finish?
    Most likely because it makes more sense that to understand it as goal, objective.
    tanto: something like marker?
    I'm not sure. It could come from the locution: apuntarse un tanto=to have a/one success in relation with something. Or maybe the locution is due to the fact that tanto is used as a unit of measure (to count) in some games. I don't know. Sorry.
    diana: the bull's eye?
    The shooting target. The bull's eye would be the blanco.
     

    Kaoss

    Senior Member
    Spanish-Spain
    In Italian the goal in a football game is called "porta", i.e. "door": the goalkeeper is a "portiere", i.e. a "doorman" or "door-keeper". The actual score in a football game is called "goal" (sometimes italianized as "gol"), so "to score a goal" is "fare un goal (to make a goal)" o "segnare un goal (to score a goal)".
    Same thing in Spanish. Portero means "goalkeeper" or "concierge", depending on the context.
     

    Kaoss

    Senior Member
    Spanish-Spain
    But when I was younger, I started a thread on that here... Topic: goal = end?

    Some questions on some words, if I may:
    - porteria = puerta? Something like a gate?
    - arco: refer to the U-shape of the goal?
    - meta: the finish?
    - tanto: something like marker?
    - diana: the bull's eye?

    Can we interpret that as kicking the ball into the goal? (kicking being something like beating but using one's feet???)
    - Arco: Arc. Not used in spain but in argentina and other american countries. Also the goalkeeper would the an "arquero" or archer/bowman.
    - Portería: Is the entrance hall of a building.
    - Meta: Goal. In sports is the finish line. Because the goal of a race is to reach the "meta". ;-)
    - Tanto: scoring point. Used in cardgames, for exmple.
     
    Same thing in Spanish. Portero means "goalkeeper" or "concierge", depending on the context.
    Thank you for reminding me that sometimes Greek sport-casters use instead of «τερματοφύλακας» the bad Italian «πορτιέρο» [portˈçe.ɾɔ] (masc.) for goalkeeper, while the concierge is «πορτιέρης» [portˈçe.ɾis] (masc.) which is the hellenized form of the Italian portiere
     
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