Gran Once

1976mpg

New Member
Español
Hi all. This is my first post on any language forum. I would like to know how to say “(El) Gran (Número) Once” in Latin language. Just “Gran Once”. In English would be “Great Eleven”. Thank you in advance for your support. I’ve used online translator and found different results like “Undecim Magna”, “Magna Undecim”, “Magnus Undecim”, etc. Hope you guys kindly help me. Thanks in advance.
 
  • Cagey

    post mod (English Only / Latin)
    English - US
    Please explain how you are going to use this. I don't know what 'the great eleven' would mean, or to whom or what it would refer. Also, in Latin, the form will be different if it's the subject of a sentence or being used in some other way.
     

    Sobakus

    Senior Member
    The question here is really only which gender to choose - the phrase seems to be used on its own so no declining involved. For a substantivised numeral, the immediately obvious choice is neuter, so magnum undecim (not magnus nor magna). There's a bit of uncertainty when it comes to counting: is it the neuter ūnum, duo, tria or the masculine ūnus, duo, trēs (or even the accusative trīs)? It would be entirely expected if there existed some variation in this regard - in many German varieties they count ein, zwo, drei (originally fem.) instead of ein, zwei, drei (originally masc.).

    But I don't think this is relevant in this case - it's definitely magnum undecim. There also exist special substantival names for the numbers from 1 to 6 (ūniō, terniō, sexiō) and for the tens (decussis, quadrāgessis, centussis), but seemingly nothing for compound numbers.
     
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    1976mpg

    New Member
    Español
    It is intended to be used on a paper's chapter title, that is about a person that wears the number 11 on his/her uniform. I haven't decided if it would be about a man or will be used as neuter gender. So, if I decide to used a man, I have to title it "Magnus Undecim", but if I do not specify if it's a man or woman, I have to use "Magnum Undecim". Am I right?
     

    Sobakus

    Senior Member
    The issue with this approach is that substantivised cardinal numbers don't seem to be used in Latin to name entities. You don't say for example Hic est ūnus/um, illa est sex to mean "He's a one, she's a six", and you wouldn't (outside of simple counting) even if they were used to name car models, if Russian is any indication. And even if you could, you still couldn't refer to a person as "a one": ūnus currit, sex natat "one of them's running, six of them is (sic) swimming", not "the number one's running, (the) six is swimming". This seems to be peculiar to the English sports jargon, and even then "(the) one is running" is hardly allowable.

    In Latin using the singular with numerals other than one sounds ungrammatical. This is acutally the perfect context to use all those ūniō, terniō, only numbers greater than 6 don't seem to be attested, so no *ū̆ndeciō. It is compelling just to make them up following the very clear pattern :)

    Instead Latin employs ordinal numerals such as prīmus...tertius...ū̆ndecimus "the eleventh one" for this. If that doesn't work for you, one option is to include the word for "number", numerus: magnus numerus undecim. But that can potentially be understood as meaning "the number eleven is great" (and I don't think moving magnus to the end fixes that entirely). A good solution for this is to use the pronoun ille in a function similar to a definite article, "that one, you-know-who": undecim ille magnus. This essentially turns Undecim into an indeclinable proper name.

    To make it clear, magnum undecim is describing the abstract number 11 as something great and could hardly be used to refer to a person.
     
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