Gujarati: Difference in perfective forms (e.g. ખાધું vs ખાધેલું)

Pokeflute

Senior Member
English - American
Gujarati (as far as I know) has two perfective forms: "-યું" (e.g. લખ્યું) and "-એલું" (e.g. લખેલું ). What are the specific differences between these two forms?

Below is my current understanding (from observing people speak). If anyone has any other ideas, or knows of any grammars that discuss this please feel free to correct me.
  1. For the simple past tense, you'll use the "-યું" form
    1. મેં ચોપડી લખી - I wrote a book
  2. For the perfect aspect, you'll use the "એલું" form to talk about the distant past, OR the "-યું" form (+ હોવું ) for any construction.
    1. મેં ચોપડી લખી છે - I've written a book
    2. મેં ચોપડી લખી હશે - I must have written a book
    3. મેં ચોપડી લખેલી - I had written the book (a long time ago) (same as below)
    4. મેં ચોપડી લખી હતી - I had written the book (a long time ago) (same as above)
  3. As an adjective you'll use the "-એલું" form
    1. ગુજરાતીમાં લખેલી ચોપડી - A book written in Gujarati
Is this accurate? Am I missing any situation?
 
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  • littlepond

    Senior Member
    Hindi
    I am not a native speaker in Gujarati, but from what I know, I don't think "મેં ચોપડી લખેલી" (without the હતી) exists.

    Also, I think you've missed મેં ચોપડી લખી હતી, which is kind of equivalent to મેં ચોપડી લખેલી હતી. Both are in the past, but the second one gives the feeling of a state of affairs (as all -eluN/elii constructions do). The first one in Hindi would be "maiN ne chaupRii likhii thii," whereas the second one would be "maiN ne chaupRii likhii huii thii."

    (Note that the yuN, eluN, etc. forms are for masculine objects: e..g., meN chopRo lakhyuN hatuN, gujraati maaN lakhelo chopRo, etc.)
     
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    Pokeflute

    Senior Member
    English - American
    Ah good catch - I meant "મેં ચોપડી લખી હતી". I've edited the post accordingly.

    I've heard my family (from Saurashtra) saying stuff like હું તયાં ગયેલો, or મેં તને કીધેલું કે... however I know that my parents speak a non-standard variety of Gujarati. So I wouldn't be surprised if such a sentence were not grammatical in Standard Gujarati.

    I guess a follow-up question would be, is મેં ચોપડી લખેલી just a non-standard way to say મેં ચોપડી લખી હતી?
    Or do both co-exist in the same variety but mean different things?
     

    Pokeflute

    Senior Member
    English - American
    After googling a bit I came across the following text online: (I can link it, but I don't know what the forum rules are for linking public instagram posts)

    હું પિક્ચર જોવા ગયેલો .
    શરૂઆતથી જ હસવા લાગ્યો .
    પછી પ્રેમમાં પડયો સંગીતનાં !

    Which I think should translate as:
    I went to see a movie
    When it started, I burst out laughing
    But afterwards, I fell in love with the music
     

    littlepond

    Senior Member
    Hindi
    I've heard my family (from Saurashtra) saying stuff like હું તયાં ગયેલો, or મેં તને કીધેલું કે... however I know that my parents speak a non-standard variety of Gujarati. So I wouldn't be surprised if such a sentence were not grammatical in Standard Gujarati.

    I think it's fairly common to hear this, but I think it's non-standard. Saurashtra anyway has the Kathiawadi variety (much sweeter to my ears than standard Gujarati), which also has a fairly different vocabulary for many items.

    I guess a follow-up question would be, is મેં ચોપડી લખેલી just a non-standard way to say મેં ચોપડી લખી હતી?
    Or do both co-exist in the same variety but mean different things?

    I would say non-standard, and such a speaker may not be using both of the syntaxes.

    હું પિક્ચર જોવા ગયેલો .
    શરૂઆતથી જ હસવા લાગ્યો .
    પછી પ્રેમમાં પડયો સંગીતનાં !

    Which I think should translate as:
    I went to see a movie
    When it started, I burst out laughing
    But afterwards, I fell in love with the music

    I think the first line is non-standard again: one could easily say here "gayo" ("went") or "gayo hato" ("had gone") instead of "gayelo."

    You haven't understood the second and third lines exactly, it seems, from your translation. (There is no "but," no opposition anywhere.) The translation would be:

    I had gone to see a film
    I started laughing from the very beginning (of the film)
    (And) Then fell into love with the music (of the film)!

    The laughing here does not seem at the film: it is rather praise, that the film was humorous, had good comedy, made the viewer laugh right from the very beginning.
     
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    littlepond

    Senior Member
    Hindi
    Ah good catch - I meant "મેં ચોપડી લખી હતી". I've edited the post accordingly.

    But now you've missed મેં ચોપડી લખેલી હતી, which to me is fine and not non-standard, unlike મેં ચોપડી લખેલી.
     
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    Pokeflute

    Senior Member
    English - American
    Good point. I was assuming a contrast, but (looking back) you're right.

    And got it. I'll update the original post. (EDIT: It's not letting me do so I think it might be too old :/)

    Thanks!
     

    Dib

    Senior Member
    Bengali (India)
    My Gujarati is very basic. So I have nothing to add to the excellent exposition by littlepond, which I thank him very much for. Just wanted to attract his attention to one small detail:

    (Note that the yuN, eluN, etc. forms are for masculine objects: e..g., meN chopRo lakhyuN hatuN, gujraati maaN lakhelo chopRo, etc.)

    -yuN, -eluN are for neuter objects. For masculine, it should be -yo, -elo. So, "chopRo lakhyo hato", etc. Gujarati, like Marathi, is a three-gender language.
     
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