Guy, guys (age/sex/acceptability of?)

sorry about that. Thanks for the correction.

I wasn't as clear as I should've been.

I don't think "men" is gender neutral as "ellos" is in spanish. And I do think that "ellos" is gender neutral ;)

I don't really use "dude" to really refer to anyone. I just kind've exclaim it as a Cool! Sometimes, I say, "man" in that sense. These usages normally come out when I'm watching professional tennis matches of high quality. Especially between the shot-makers. Mom calls me a "dudette" every once in awhile and she is not insulting my intelligence. Oh yes, there are dude ranches. Everyone who's from the East or hasn't rode a horse or rides English is a "dude." I'd say the majority of us are. I'm a dude in that sense. I ride English.

I've heard hey guys and gals.

I like folks. It is nice and gender neutral no matter what way you look at it.
 
  • vindack

    New Member
    Uzbekistan, Russian and Uzbek
    If you see a bunch of girls, do you say 'How you guys doing?' is that correct? Or should you say '(what are you) "girls" (doing)? '? Thank You
     

    edval89

    Senior Member
    United States/English
    You could say girls or guys and make sense, if it's all girls.

    If there's one guy with a bunch of girls, it would be offensive to say "how are you girls doing?" so you would say "How are you guys doing?"

    Hope I helped!

    -edv
     

    vindack

    New Member
    Uzbekistan, Russian and Uzbek
    You could say girls or guys and make sense, if it's all girls.

    If there's one guy with a bunch of girls, it would be offensive to say "how are you girls doing?" so you would say "How are you guys doing?"

    Hope I helped!

    -edv

    Thanks a bunch for a quick reply!
     

    Orange Blossom

    Senior Member
    U.S.A. English
    It depends on where you are. I had some friends from Texas say that there and in other southern states girls and women aren't called guys whether in a mixed group or not. Their reaction is "I'm not a guy." So, I would say "folks" if it is a mixed group.

    Orange Blossom
     

    Thomas Tompion

    Senior Member
    English - England
    I seem to have upset some people when I started a post 'Hi guys'. Some people objected because they were female and others objected because it was youth-speak. I've not known what to call a mixed group of AE and BE speakers of various ages, as an informal greeting, since. Ladies and gentlemen seemed formal and left out one or two, and I couldn't bring myself to say fellas, which might have provoked more reaction.
     

    word_up

    Senior Member
    No offense, Marc, as this may be part of yours or other generation's usage, but I have been, and will be continue to be offended when someone calls me "guy." Despite what dictionaries may cite as a definition, the last time I checked, I was not a guy.

    If called this in mixed plural company, such as "Hey, guys," I have no problem.

    HELLO
    It's an old topic, but I thought of the word because I used this word today in a semi-official setting.

    So to my question:
    what would you suggest to use for a group of: 1)young 2) middle aged women instead of "guys" ? Let's say that a waitress in a restaurant addresses such a group ;D ?

    and the 2nd:
    Is it polite enough to use this in such settings: a lecturer adresses a group of students (of both sexes/genders?)? / you get acquainted with a group of people of varying ages and you together go to a bar/pub for a drink and conversation?
     

    HistofEng

    Senior Member
    USA Eng, Haitian-Creole
    HELLO
    It's an old topic, but I thought of the word because I used this word today in a semi-official setting.

    So to my question:
    what would you suggest to use for a group of: 1)young 2) middle aged women instead of "guys" ? Let's say that a waitress in a restaurant addresses such a group ;D ?

    and the 2nd:
    Is it polite enough to use this in such settings: a lecturer adresses a group of students (of both sexes/genders?)? / you get acquainted with a group of people of varying ages and you together go to a bar/pub for a drink and conversation?


    For the first one, I'm not quite sure what I would say. "Hi ladies", perhaps.

    For a lecturer addressing his mixed-gender students, I would probably say "you all", but, depending on the context, I might not object to "you guys".
     

    TrentinaNE

    Senior Member
    USA
    English (American)
    what would you suggest to use for a group of: 1)young 2) middle aged women instead of "guys" ? Let's say that a waitress in a restaurant addresses such a group ;D ?
    Why is there a need to "address them" at all? A simple, "Hello. May I take your order?" is sufficient in my book, and much preferable to "Hello, guys." Ugh. But if an "address" is deemed necessary, I suggest "Hello, everyone." That works for men as well as women. ;)

    Elisabetta
     

    word_up

    Senior Member
    Thanks, both of you!

    I asked, because I have addressed a group of students "Hello guys" today,
    and had second thought that this was maybe impolite.

    (this wasn't a lecture, I had just been asked to tell them about my place of work)
     

    twinklestar

    Senior Member
    Chinese
    Could someone tell me why the word of 'guy' could be used to address people no matter female or male today, especially in the US?

    Are there any other native speakers who might not like to be addressed as 'guys' outside the US?

    I looked up its etymology and found it referred to grotesquesly or poorly dressed person. Here's the URL link about the etymology.

    http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=guy&searchmode=none

    Thanks in advance!
     

    nzfauna

    Senior Member
    New Zealand, English
    In contemporary English, "guy" means "a man/a male".

    However, it is also sometimes used int the plural "guys" to refer to a group of people (even if that people has females in it). Some speakers will refer to "guys and girls" though.
     

    fenixpollo

    moderator
    American English
    Could someone tell me why the word of 'guy' could be used to address people no matter female or male today, especially in the US?
    Because modern English has no distinct 2nd-person plural pronoun. We must use "you" when talking to one or twenty people. So many people use a regionally-acceptable pronoun, such as you guys or y'all, to pluralize "you".

    It's acceptable to address females in this way because English nouns lack gender and because it's linguistically standard (albeit sexist) to default to the masculine.
     

    Nunty

    Senior Member
    Hebrew-US English (bilingual)
    It is linguistically standard in languages that have gender, yes. But English doesn't. I detest being referred to as a guy. On the other hand, that could just be because I am middle-aged and intolerant. Forty years ago I didn't mind it.
     

    morzh

    Banned
    USA
    Russian
    Well, I know what "guy" means here in the US, and I do know the history of the word (Guy Fawkes).

    While generally a neutral word here in the US, that can be made positive or negative depending whom it is used towards, or by addition of "good/bad", in the UK there's at least one more meaning (due to the word's history) of a questionably dressed person.

    Question: if used in the traditional US way ("hey there guys! " or "hey guy, what's up!") can it be misunderstood or sound offensive in the UK?

    Moderators: I searched but found no discussion; feel free to concatenate if you know you have one already.
     

    PaulQ

    Senior Member
    UK
    English - England
    It's neutral and informal in the UK too. e.g.
    "I was speaking to this guy the other day, and he told me that..."
    "See that guy over there? The one with the black jacket?..."
    "Were you the guy who knocked at my door yesterday? I couldn't come to the door, I was in the bath."
     

    morzh

    Banned
    USA
    Russian
    But I guess, as a direct addressing it is not as popular? Or is it? I mean, it would have to compete with "lad/chap/bloke"...what else is there?
    Like in "Hey guys!" - would you hear it as much in the UK as you would here?
     

    PaulQ

    Senior Member
    UK
    English - England
    But I guess, as a direct addressing it is not as popular? Yes, that's true.
    "Hey guys!" - would you hear it as much in the UK as you would here? That's very AE. I doubt I have ever heard it.
     

    panjandrum

    Lapsed Moderator
    English-Ireland (top end)
    Using "guy" or "guys" can trigger very strong reaction.

    Today's posts have been added to the most relevant previous thread on this topic.
    Sorry it's a bit long, but ... ...
     
    Last edited:

    Copperknickers

    Senior Member
    Scotland - Scots and English
    'Guys' and 'hey guys' are universally used amongst young Brits these days to refer to any group of people, even if it's all girls. It might get a sarky comment in reply if used for the latter, but it's very common to do so nonetheless, and not offensive at all.
     

    Distance

    Member
    English - UK, Welsh - Southern dialect
    I have to admit that as a young Brit, I do use "you guys" etc. quite often. I wouldn't say it's purely American.
     

    DonnyB

    Sixties Mod
    English UK Southern Standard English
    No, I agree: it's in fairly common use in BE now without sounding especially American. When I was still at work, we even had a manager (female, 30-ish) who used to address everyone, male and female, young and old, as "you guys" at staff meetings.
     

    JazzByChas

    Senior Member
    American English
    I would have to agree with FenixPollo: modern (and even older) English does not have a distinct second person plural. We have to use the word "you" in both instances. I think that, even though I use 'guys' to address males, females, or a group, I believe it would work best to say, "ladies" or "gentlemen" to address a group of females and males, respectively, using "everyone" or "ladies and gentlemen" or "gentile people" to address a mixed group. Saying "gals" or "dolls" or "tootsies" to refer to a group of females would be a tad informal, if not slightly vulgar. Now, if I'm addressing senior women, I might first refer to them as "ladies," and upon getting to know them better "young ladies" if I wanted to get on their good side.:D

    Bottom line: English needs a good second person plural like "Ustedes" in Spanish.
    {Thought: "Ladies", "gentlemen", "Youen"}
     
    Last edited:

    Hard-beat

    Senior Member
    Dutch
    Here are a few threads on the subject where we have already discussed the subject at length. It depends on who you are asking, and certainly on who you are talking to:
    If someone were to address me (a female) singularly as "Hey guy," I would be offended.

    If someone were to address me in a group of female friends as "hey guys," I would be mildly annoyed.

    If someone were to address me in a group of mixed company as "hey guys," I would not bat an eye.

    If someone were to address my mother, grandmother or any group of female people older than myself as "hey guys," I would give them a good verbal lashing right then and there.

    Guys is certainly colloquial, and should not be used in any formal context, or in polite company.


    I'm 26 and although I would not bat an eye if an all-girl group would be greeted with "Hey guys!" whether it'd be by a guy or a girl (both happen), I agree with everything else GenJen54 has said in this thread.

    A younger person addressing a group of older ladies 'guys' or 'dudes' calls to my mind the image of a too-cool-for-school indifferent surfer bum taking your orders at a beach shack, followed by a "Rock on!" and hand sign. On the other hand, jokingly calling them 'birds' or 'chicks' accompanied with a cheeky grin I would find completely acceptable and would probably be met with laughter rather than unease.

    But maybe that's just me.
     

    Hard-beat

    Senior Member
    Dutch
    Neither of the above sentences sounds strange to me. Careful, though! If you're not using it as an address, but as a referent in discourse, it will indeed sound odd when applied to women.

    Good point to make! I have to say though, I have never heard 'guys' being used other than to directly address a group of girls.

    Even for a mixed group it would sound strange to me.
    :cross:I'm going to have a drink with the guys.
    :tick:I'm going to have a drink with the guys and Jes and Cleo.
    :tick:I'm going to have a drink with the pack/troop/gang/bunch.
     

    Hildy1

    Senior Member
    English - US and Canada
    Several people above have mentioned the Southern U.S. "y'all", which I agree is useful.

    When I was growing up in the South, we said "y'all" only when speaking informally. I would not have said it when talking to older people. In formal situations we used the full "you all". :)
     

    panzerfaust0

    Senior Member
    mandarin
    Hello. It has been brought to my attention that addressing people, or more specifically, strangers, as "you guys", is rude. I am just wondering what the consensus is on this.

    To me, when someone calls a group of people "you guys", it sounds like these people are quite close to her. And that she is treating them like friends, almost. It's similar to saying "folks". I actually do not consider this to be rude at all but apparently some people disagree.

    What are your thoughts?
     

    Egmont

    Senior Member
    English - U.S.
    This is a very informal expression. It might not be rude, but it can be. The answer depends very much on the social situation. I might address close friends that way, but I would not use this phrase to address strangers.

    Another factor is that some women do not mind being included in a group of "guys" of mixed sex, but some do.
     

    panzerfaust0

    Senior Member
    mandarin
    This is a very informal expression. It might not be rude, but it can be. The answer depends very much on the social situation. I might address close friends that way, but I would not use this phrase to address strangers.

    Another factor is that some women do not mind being included in a group of "guys" of mixed sex, but some do.

    Thanks for the reply Egmont.

    So, how should I address strangers then?
     

    Chasint

    Senior Member
    English - England
    It is the use of "You" as a form of address that causes the problem.

    "You, come over here!"
    "You people are all the same."
    "You guys, stop what you're doing."

    All of the above are peremptory and presume some sort of superiority on the part of the speaker.

    It's safer to simply say "Guys", e.g.

    "Guys! Stop what you're doing and look at this."
     

    Andygc

    Senior Member
    British English
    This has been discussed previously.
    < ---- >
    Folks/ guys / fellows

    As far as I am concerned it is rude. To me the use of "you" is irrelevant. You will not get a consensus.

    < Threads have been merged. Cagey, moderator >
     
    Last edited by a moderator:

    panzerfaust0

    Senior Member
    mandarin
    I do not need a reason to find it rude. I, like many others, find it a disrespectful way to be addressed by somebody who is a stranger.

    I see.

    Maybe I will stick to just "you", then. "Do you think this expression is good"? "Do you find my new dress pretty?" etc etc.
     

    entangledbank

    Senior Member
    English - South-East England
    I didn't distinguish between vocatives and references.

    Vocative: Excuse me, you guys, which way is Covent Garden?
    Reference: Excuse me, do you guys know where Covent Garden is?

    Don't use anything as a vocative, and use standard English 'you' as a reference. There's no need for anything more, and there's no need for a distinct plural form.
     

    dojibear

    Senior Member
    US English
    There are different situations. Talking to a team you are part of, while walking someplace together, is a totally different situation than greeting strangers in an English Only forum, which is totally different than speaking to people from several companies at a business meeting, which is totally different than talking to a group of friends at a bar. You can't expect one rule (or one choice of words) to fit different situations.

    I'll comment on the forum situation:

    When starting a forum post, I usually avoid "labelling" the readers by using a noun for them. I start by explaining my point, or asking my question. The same is true for emails, except to people I know personally (Hi, Liz).

    When I do use a word for people, I use "folks". I would never write "guys".

    After my ideas, I may ask "What do you think?" or "What does everyone think?". There is no need to add a noun describing (labelling) the people I am talking to, and write "What do you guys/folks/people/gurus/experts/leprechauns think?"
     

    DonnyB

    Sixties Mod
    English UK Southern Standard English
    Taking up specifically the point about using "[Hi] guys" in forum posts, there are known to be members who dislike it for various reasons, and that's their prerogative. However, that doesn't in my opinion give them the right to impose what amounts to their personal dislike on other members. Whatever you may think about the propriety of using "guys" - and there are understandably differing shades of opinion on this - I think it's important to make the point that members who address each other as "guys" are by and large not doing it to be deliberately disrespectful, rude, over-familiar or any of the other things they're being implicitly accused of. They see it as a friendly introductory greeting which they'll have seen widely used elsewhere, possibly in other forums they use.

    If you don't think they should and want to retaliate by taking offence and not just responding to their posts, fine - I doubt anybody much is going to care. But quite honestly, don't we have enough "rules" in the English Only forum that people carp about as it is, without having something else masquerading as a rule when it isn't one?
     

    Keith Bradford

    Senior Member
    English (Midlands UK)
    Donny, none of us ordinary users of this forum can "impose what amounts to their personal dislike on other members". Only moderators have that power.

    However, if we are offended we have the right to say so, and we may hope that others recognise the problem. I for one don't like being called guy or dude :eek:by anyone. Certainly not by the waiter some 50 years my younger, taking my wife's and my order in a Stratford pub (What can I get you guys?). Did he realise we would be annoyed? No, of course not, or he wouldn't have said it. Did we point out the problem to him? Yes, of course, it's all part of his training. Was he more careful from then on? We may hope so.

    Perhaps there's some simple guidance like:
    • Don't put guys in writing to people you don't know.
    • Don't pronounce it to anyone in long trousers unless they're wearing a baseball cap.
    Hey guys! :tick:...............................Hey guys! :cross:
    1631270958658.png
    1631271062476.png


    Hey Guy! :tick: :tick: :tick:


    1631281350485.jpeg
     
    Last edited:

    DonnyB

    Sixties Mod
    English UK Southern Standard English
    Donny, none of us ordinary users of this forum can "impose what amounts to their personal dislike on other members". Only moderators have that power.

    However, if we are offended we have the right to say so, and we may hope that others recognise the problem. I for one don't like being called guy or dude :eek:by anyone. Certainly not by the waiter some 50 years my younger, taking my wife's and my order in a Stratford pub (What can I get you guys?). Did he realise we would be annoyed? No, of course not, or he wouldn't have said it. Did we point out the problem to him? Yes, of course, it's all part of his training. Was he more careful from then on? We may hope so.

    Perhaps there's some simple guidance like:
    • Don't put guys in writing to people you don't know.
    • Don't pronounce it to anyone in long trousers unless they're wearing a baseball cap.
    Hey guys! :tick:...............................Hey guys! :cross:
    View attachment 61717 View attachment 61718
    Ha, well, not even moderators have any business seeking to impose what amounts to their personal dislike of something on members. What members should not do, in my view, is to post comments in threads implying that posters should not have addressed someone as "Hi, guys" and if I see something like that I will delete it (quite apart from anything else, it's almost certainly going to be off-topic). I have in the past taken the line that if members want to explain in a conversation message, kindly and politely, that they were offended by it, as might other members be, then that's different. A link to this thread might be a good move towards explaining why.

    Your story of the waiter in the Stratford pub illustrates that this is a tricky area of etiquette generally. I/We wouldn't have been offended in the slightest in that scenario: I quite regularly get called "mate" or "buddy" by guys young enough to be my grandson and I don't mind at all. The one which, perversely enough, I do mind is being called "Sir" which invariably makes me feel a hundred and ten and if a suitable opportunity arises I generally ask people not to do it (or at the very least, tell them that there's no need to).
     

    dojibear

    Senior Member
    US English
    Taking up specifically the point about using "[Hi] guys" in forum posts, there are known to be members who dislike it for various reasons, and that's their prerogative.
    I disagree with DonnyB. :eek: I know, I know, how is that possible? :D But here is my reasoning:

    An OP is not a fluent English-speaker saying what they usually say. Somewhere there is a book teaching that "Hey guys, what's up?" is an appropriate English group salutation, and can be used anywhere -- including when writing to a group of strangers. That is false information, not a personal prerogative or a personal dislike.

    An OP probably doesn't do this in their native language. That language probably has various forms of address, each one inappropriate in some situations. It's like saying...well, never mind. I've studied a few languages. Languages have rules.

    It's true that (in this forum) we usually ignore mistakes in OP's post and only address their questions. So most of the time we ignore "Hi guys". But sometimes we make other corrections too.

    How do I react personally? The WR dictionary says that "guy" and "guys" are informal terms. If I have any problem with thread-starters in this forum, it is a complete stranger addressing me with an informal term, as the very first thing that they write. I have the same reaction when a stranger telephones me (a sales call) and starts the conversation with informal talk. To me, that is condescending. It is phony. We aren't friends (BE "mates"). Why say things that you only say to friends?
     

    DonnyB

    Sixties Mod
    English UK Southern Standard English
    I disagree with DonnyB. :eek: I know, I know, how is that possible? :D But here is my reasoning:

    An OP is not a fluent English-speaker saying what they usually say. Somewhere there is a book teaching that "Hey guys, what's up?" is an appropriate English group salutation, and can be used anywhere -- including when writing to a group of strangers. That is false information, not a personal prerogative or a personal dislike.

    .....

    How do I react personally? The WR dictionary says that "guy" and "guys" are informal terms. If I have any problem with thread-starters in this forum, it is a complete stranger addressing me with an informal term, as the very first thing that they write. I have the same reaction when a stranger telephones me (a sales call) and starts the conversation with informal talk. To me, that is condescending. It is phony. We aren't friends (BE "mates"). Why say things that you only say to friends?
    I wonder if this doesn't perhaps echo the point I made in post #73 about the ex-manager who thought it was okay to address us all as "you guys". She wasn't a learner, but she'd obviously picked up from somewhere the notion that it was a suitable way of addressing your staff. In some workplaces I daresay it would've been, there are places where that sort of informal 'we're all in this together as a team of friends' approach is the norm, and no-one would've batted an eyelid, but where we were it wasn't. It just came across as palpably false and that's what made it incongruous.

    Maybe no-one else thought it was: I don't think I ever heard anyone else comment on it. However the fact that none of the other managers went in for that sort of style of address suggests to me that it probably wasn't regarded as the 'done thing'.
     

    MattiasNYC

    Senior Member
    Swedish
    I borderline boggles my mind what some people are offended by. If someone calls me "guy" or "dude" I couldn't care less unless the intent was bad or it was in conjunction with something that actually matters, like; "Dude, you're not white, you're not welcome here!"

    Curses and casual language is so insignificant in the large scheme of things that... well... I have zero energy to be upset by simple things like that.

    This forum should perhaps have an etiquette section for those who care about such things. I for one don't.
     

    Andygc

    Senior Member
    British English
    If someone calls me "guy" or "dude" I couldn't care less
    My wife objects pretty strongly. She doesn't like being addressed casually by somebody 50 years younger than she is, and doesn't like being called a man.

    Sadly, British English in particular has lost the respect for other people that exists in other societies - for example the French use of their words meaning "you". The "guys" form of address goes along with customer advisers expecting to address customers by their forenames rather than as "Mr Bloggs" or "Mrs Bloggs". I address others with respect, I expect others to do the same to me.
     

    MattiasNYC

    Senior Member
    Swedish
    My wife objects pretty strongly. She doesn't like being addressed casually by somebody 50 years younger than she is, and doesn't like being called a man.

    Sadly, British English in particular has lost the respect for other people that exists in other societies

    < Off-topic comment removed. Cagey, moderator >

    Again: You can be linguistically polite, or whatever you want to call it, and still be incredibly disrespectful of what really matters. I'm 100% convinced that generally if someone addresses you or your wife casually it's not a sign of them having less respect for you, it's just how they address people. I really don't see how leaping to them lacking respect based on simple things like this is any less presumptuous than presuming someone who expects old school "manners" is pompous.

    This stuff is mostly superficial.

    - for example the French use of their words meaning "you". The "guys" form of address goes along with customer advisers expecting to address customers by their forenames rather than as "Mr Bloggs" or "Mrs Bloggs". I address others with respect, I expect others to do the same to me.

    I expect to earn the respect of others, and once I hopefully do I expect them to convey that respect using any words they want. I care about the intent and meaning of what they are trying to say more than the form, or 'book cover'.

    If someone goes "Hey dude, you got the time?" I'll answer and won't be offended. Age certainly doesn't matter.

    My female friends sometimes go "Ok guys, we gotta do this!" to the entire group, mostly female. Nobody is offended and upset that it wasn't "gals" or something gender neutral. And yes, we're all not in our 20's. Range is 40-50.

    There are horrible things going on on this planet, and not a single one of those things could have been prevented with a "Mister". Today is an anniversary of a day I spent here in NYC. That's my context for a lot of this.

    Hopefully my comments on these words were still on-topic.
     
    Last edited by a moderator:

    Keith Bradford

    Senior Member
    English (Midlands UK)
    < Response to deleted comment removed. Cagey, moderator >

    We have all grown up using and reacting to the language around us within our own lifetime. When I was a child, "Guy" was to me the straw dummy who was dressed in old clothes and burned on a bonfire on November 5th (see the third photo in #91 and a full explanation in Guy Fawkes Night - Wikipedia). Are you surprised if I don't like being called "guy"? Would you be happy if a complete stranger said to you "Hey, scarecrow!... Hey dummy!... Hey, bum!"
     
    Last edited by a moderator:

    Roxxxannne

    Senior Member
    American English (New England and NYC)
    I expect to earn the respect of others, and once I hopefully do I expect them to convey that respect using any words they want. I care about the intent and meaning of what they are trying to say more than the form, or 'book cover'.

    If someone goes "Hey dude, you got the time?" I'll answer and won't be offended. Age certainly doesn't matter.
    Can you in all honesty say that there is no word that someone might call you that would NOT be offensive to you? If that's true, then I believe you are in a very small minority.
     

    MattiasNYC

    Senior Member
    Swedish
    < Response to deleted comment removed. Cagey, moderator >

    The point is that these superficially nicer words were used by the those people I'm talking about, and that it in turn proves that just because someone uses nice words it doesn't mean at all that they aren't horrible people.

    It's superficial to assume that people are respectful just because they use nice words. It's equally superficial to think worse of people because they don't. (See PS however)

    We have all grown up using and reacting to the language around us within our own lifetime. When I was a child, "Guy" was to me the straw dummy who was dressed in old clothes and burned on a bonfire on November 5th (see the third photo in #91 and a full explanation in Guy Fawkes Night - Wikipedia). Are you surprised if I don't like being called "guy"? Would you be happy if a complete stranger said to you "Hey, scarecrow!... Hey dummy!... Hey, bum!"

    If someone said "Hey scarecrow" to me or "Hey dummy" I'd probably just laugh. Like I said before, if someone told me politely that I couldn't enter an establishment because of my skin color that'd be a problem. If the person said "Hey dummy, come to my establishment instead" then that would not be a problem. The latter is superficial, the former is not.

    PS: I'm obviously not talking about the k-word, the n-word or the f-word. Those words have a meaning that is deliberately negative, whereas "guys" does not.
     
    Last edited by a moderator:
    Top