have long been dead vs. have been long dead

[High on grammar]

Hello everyone!

I saw many examples of both "have long been dead" and "have been long dead" on Googlebooks. Could you please tell what the difference is?


“Some people say glamour has been long dead”

Orange Coast Magazine - Mar 1999 - Page 24
“Of course by this time Joseph has long been dead.”
Telling God's Story: The Biblical Narrative from Beginning to End - Page 62
Thanks

 

[wandle]

There is no real difference in semantic terms: the message being conveyed is the same.
There is no difference in grammatical correctness: the adverb may modify either 'been' or 'dead'.
Some people treat 'long dead' as a cliché, and feel the two words belong together.

 

[e2efour]

Google ngram supports the view that with long dead you usually keep the same tense, i.e. "is long dead". This fits in with what I feel is natural.
http://books.google.com/ngrams/grap...800&year_end=2000&corpus=0&smoothing=3&share=.

Your second sentence I find unusual. It seems to use what we call a historical present. I would have expected "had long been dead" or "had been long dead".

 

[High on grammar]

Google ngram supports the view that with long dead you usually keep the same tense, i.e. "is long dead". This fits in with what I feel is natural.
http://books.google.com/ngrams/grap...800&year_end=2000&corpus=0&smoothing=3&share=.

Your second sentence I find unusual. It seems to use what we call a historical present. I would have expected "had long been dead" or "had been long dead".

Neither of those sentences is mine. They have been written by English writers.

 

[e2efour]

Neither of those sentences is mine. They have been written by English writers.

If we say your sentence, this can mean the sentence that you made up or the sentence that you gave.

 

[Forero]

Being "long dead" is a condition that does not change. I would not say "has been long dead", but I might say "has long been dead" or "is long dead."

 

[High on grammar]

Google ngram supports the view that with long dead you usually keep the same tense, i.e. "is long dead". This fits in with what I feel is natural.
http://books.google.com/ngrams/grap...800&year_end=2000&corpus=0&smoothing=3&share=.

Your second sentence I find unusual. It seems to use what we call a historical present. I would have expected "had long been dead" or "had been long dead".

I just read the whole paragraph for "“ Joseph has long been dead" and I think your are right. Because the whole paragraph is written in the past tense. I think it's a mistake



Thanks again