Hezbollah

  • Jana337

    Senior Member
    čeština
    Tabac said:
    What's the meaning of the word? I'm assuming it's a contraction that includes "Allah".

    Thanks!
    Hizb (حزب) - a (political) party.
    It is not an contraction. It simply means Party of God.

    Jana
     

    Whodunit

    Senior Member
    Deutschland ~ Deutsch/Sächsisch
    Jana337 said:
    Hizb (حزب) - a (political) party.
    It is not an contraction. It simply means Party of God.

    Jana
    Well, I think is some kind of contraction. It's an "al-2iDaafa", a genetive construction or status constructus of the two words "hizb" and "allah":

    حزب اﷲ

    The letter "o" instead of "a" in "ollah" should be a "u". It's the indetermined nominative indicator. :)
     

    Josh_

    Senior Member
    U.S., English
    It's not really a contraction, but I can see how someone might think that when it is written in English since it is normally written as one word, whereas in the Arabic it is two words.
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    It's not a contraction at all. "7izbullaa" is the correct - and complete - pronunciation of the phrase, since the alef of الله is not supposed to be pronounced. As you must know, Whodunit, the alef of the definite article gets "swallowed" by the preceding vowel, provided there is one.
     

    Whodunit

    Senior Member
    Deutschland ~ Deutsch/Sächsisch
    elroy said:
    It's not a contraction at all.
    Well, it's the same contraction as "Haustür" or "porte d'entrée" is. As I said, it can be considered a contraction for those who don't know Arabic, as the two words are written in one word, just like inshallah (it's some kind of contraction of three words to one). ;)

    "7izbullaa" is the correct - and complete - pronunciation of the phrase, since the alef of الله is not supposed to be pronounced. As you must know, Whodunit, the alef of the definite article gets "swallowed" by the preceding vowel, provided there is one.
    I'm not sure I understand you. The word "allah" begins with the vowel "a". It can be changed to "u" and "i", as far as I know, which depends on the preceding vowel. But what do you mean by "definite article"? I can't see any in the word 7izbullah ... :confused:
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Whodunit said:
    Well, it's the same contraction as "Haustür" or "porte d'entrée" is. As I said, it can be considered a contraction for those who don't know Arabic, as the two words are written in one word, just like inshallah (it's some kind of contraction of three words to one). ;)
    "Haustür" is not a contraction.
    In "porte d'entrée," the only contraction is "d'entrée" which is a contraction of "de entrée."
    A contraction is a combination of two or more words in which one or more letters are dropped. A contraction in German is found in "wie geht's?" where the "e" of "es" is dropped.
    Since no letters are dropped from the Arabic expression, it is not a contraction.

    I'm not sure I understand you. The word "allah" begins with the vowel "a". It can be changed to "u" and "i", as far as I know, which depends on the preceding vowel. But what do you mean by "definite article"? I can't see any in the word 7izbullah ... :confused:
    No! The "a" does not change to any other vowel; it is simply not pronounced. The definite article is in the word "Allaah," which is a combination of "al" and "ilaah" (sidenote: you could perhaps consider "Allaah" a contraction of "Al-ilaah" because the "i" has been dropped).

    The way it works is that the "a" of the indefinite article is not pronounced so you simply skip over to the next sound. As I said, the previous vowel "swallows" the "a" but the "a" does not change to another vowel.

    7izbu + allaah = 7izbuallaah

    As you can see, no letters are dropped. The "a" is supposed to be dropped anyway because pronouncing it would be incorrect.

    I hope that helps. :)
     

    Whodunit

    Senior Member
    Deutschland ~ Deutsch/Sächsisch
    elroy said:
    "Haustür" is not a contraction.
    In "porte d'entrée," the only contraction is "d'entrée" which is a contraction of "de entrée."
    A contraction is a combination of two or more words in which one or more letters are dropped. A contraction in German is found in "wie geht's?" where the "e" of "es" is dropped.
    Since no letters are dropped from the Arabic expression, it is not a contraction.
    Would you agree with me to use the term "compound"?

    No! The "a" does not change to any other vowel; it is simply not pronounced. The definite article is in the word "Allaah," which is a combination of "al" and "ilaah" (sidenote: you could perhaps consider "Allaah" a contraction of "Al-ilaah" because the "i" has been dropped).
    To be honest, I didn't even notice that. Did I ever said that the definite article is pronounced fully - i.e. that we say "al"?

    The way it works is that the "a" of the indefinite article is not pronounced so you simply skip over to the next sound. As I said, the previous vowel "swallows" the "a" but the "a" does not change to another vowel.
    If I said that in "wie geht's" the "e" is changed into an apostrophe, it would not be incorrect, would it? It could be considered strange to call it a "change", but it's not wrong at all. ;)

    As you can see, no letters are dropped. The "a" is supposed to be dropped anyway because pronouncing it would be incorrect.
    I have never claimed the contrary, have I? :)
     

    linguist786

    Senior Member
    English, Gujarati & Urdu
    elroy said:
    No! The "a" does not change to any other vowel; it is simply not pronounced.
    Hehe.. that's what I was going to say too! Just that sentence sums it all up.

    Another thing I'd like to point out, by the way, is that when you say "حزب الله" when using it in either the nominative or accusative, the word "allaah" is pronounced with a "full mouth". It's hard to explain without listening to it, but i'll try and explain:
    (When مرفوع or منصوب): hizbullaah - the "aa" here is pronunced like in the english word "far"

    However, when the حزب in "حزب الله" is in the state of رجع (i.e. when it is مجرور), the word Allaah is pronounced with an "empty mouth". So:
    (when مجرور) e.g. في حزب الله - this would be pronounced "fii hizbillaah". Here the "aa" is pronunced like in the english word "apple"
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Whodunit said:
    Would you agree with me to use the term "compound"?
    Yes, I would call "Haustür" a compound word, but that has nothing to do with our discussion.
    Did I ever said that the definite article is pronounced fully - i.e. that we say "al"?
    No, but saying that the pronunciation changes is misleading.
    If I said that in "wie geht's" the "e" is changed into an apostrophe, it would not be incorrect, would it? It could be considered strange to call it a "change", but it's not wrong at all. ;)
    I don't know what point you're trying to make here. Contractions are not "wrong" - just not appropriate in certain contexts.
    I have never claimed the contrary, have I? :)
    You said that the pronunciation of the alef changes, which is not true.
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    You are right, Linguist. Just one correction:

    linguist786 said:
    However, when the حزب in "حزب الله" is in the state of جر (i.e. when it is مجرور),...
     

    Josh_

    Senior Member
    U.S., English
    When I said that I can see how someone might consider Hizbollah (or however you want to spell it) a contraction I was thinking of a non-Arabic native's understanding of the word and his/her confusion between the linguist terms 'contraction' and 'compound word'. Really though, compound word (such as "doghouse" and "bedtime") would be more accurate as it is a combination of Hizb and allah put together into one word.
     

    linguist786

    Senior Member
    English, Gujarati & Urdu
    Josh Adkins said:
    When I said that I can see how someone might consider Hizbollah (or however you want to spell it) a contraction I was thinking of a non-Arabic native's understanding of the word and his/her confusion between the linguist terms 'contraction' and 'compound word'. Really though, compound word (such as "doghouse" and "bedtime") would be more accurate as it is a combination of Hizb and allah put together into one word.
    But it isn't "one word" - we've got the word "7izbun" and "Allaah". It's a مضاف مضاف اليه construction, is it not?
     

    Whodunit

    Senior Member
    Deutschland ~ Deutsch/Sächsisch
    linguist786 said:
    But it isn't "one word" - we've got the word "7izbun" and "Allaah". It's a مضاف مضاف اليه construction, is it not?
    That's not what Josh and I mean. The word "Hezbollah" looks like one word - just as "doghouse" or "Haustür" look like one word. So it is a "merging" of two words to just one - for the Arabic example this holds for the transcription only; in Arabic script they are two independent words hizb and allah.

    I hope this helps. :)
     

    Josh_

    Senior Member
    U.S., English
    linguist786 said:
    But it isn't "one word" - we've got the word "7izbun" and "Allaah". It's a مضاف مضاف اليه construction, is it not?
    Yes, in Arabic it is two words, but I'm talking about the nature of the word in English. In English these two (Arabic) words are normally written as one word and that's why I gave it the tentative classification of a compound word in the English classification system. And even that may be inaccurate as we are talking about two different language systems. In English it may just be considered a single word in the same manner that Abdallah is just considered one word.
     

    linguist786

    Senior Member
    English, Gujarati & Urdu
    Josh Adkins said:
    Yes, in Arabic it is two words, but I'm talking about the nature of the word in English. In English these two (Arabic) words are normally written as one word and that's why I gave it the tentative classification of a compound word in the English classification system. And even that may be inaccurate as we are talking about two different language systems. In English it may just be considered a single word in the same manner that Abdullah is just considered one word.
    I think the bold sentence says it all - it's hard to compare them both. It would be wrong to say it's a compound word as well as a contraction, since it's something thats just not comparable.
     

    Whodunit

    Senior Member
    Deutschland ~ Deutsch/Sächsisch
    linguist786 said:
    I think the bold sentence says it all - it's hard to compare them both. It would be wrong to say it's a compound word as well as a contraction, since it's something thats just not comparable.
    How would you want to explain someone whose native language is English how Arabic works, if you can't compare it to English?

    You can compare English and French, although they are two different language systems, too:

    doghouse - wijarulkalb - chenil - Hundehütte

    All of these four words look like one word. The first and last (German) one are compounds (they consist of two independend words that have been put together). The second word is actually three words: wijaar + al + kalb, but someone who doesn't know Arabic considers it one word. The third word (French) is one word and does not consist of anything else.

    Don't they all look like just one word? That's the point Josh and I try to make. We know that the words "compound" and "contraction" are not correct when speaking about Arabic genitive constructions, but to someone who is not familiar with that language it seems like a compound or just one word.

    Do you agree now? :)
     

    Josh_

    Senior Member
    U.S., English
    linguist786 said:
    I think the bold sentence says it all - it's hard to compare them both. It would be wrong to say it's a compound word as well as a contraction, since it's something thats just not comparable.
    I'm not saying it's both, I'm saying that "compound word" is a better classification. But, yes, as far as English goes, it probably should just be considered one word since it made its way into English as such and is written as such, not to mention that 'Hizb' is not used in English and allah is sometimes used in English with that spelling and not other spellings.

    I don't think we can say that one spelling is better than the other when it comes to transliterations. I have seen it both ways. For what it's worth my professor spells his name Abdallah.

    Edit: Both Whodunit and I were typing at the same time.
     

    linguist786

    Senior Member
    English, Gujarati & Urdu
    I think for someone who has no knowledge of Arabic, I suppose it would be OK to say it's a compound word. (since in English it is written as one word - made up of two bits).

    Or maybe we could just explain the grammar behind it all if they can be bothered to understand it?! hehe
    Whodunit said:
    The second word is actually three words: wijaar + al + kalb, but someone who doesn't know Arabic considers it one word.
    "al" isn't a word.
    Josh Adkins said:
    I don't think we can say that one spelling is better than the other when it comes to transliterations. I have seen it both ways. For what it's worth my professor spells his name Abdallah.
    But why would he want his name to be in the منصوب?! :D:p

    You're right actually :thumbsup:

    Anyway, I remember a thread in the Culture Forum and a member said that a linguistics professor said to him/her that everyone has a right to spell and pronounce their name however they want. It could be spelt "Edward" but pronounced "David" - but everyone has that right!
     

    Josh_

    Senior Member
    U.S., English
    linguist786 said:
    Or maybe we could just explain the grammar behind it all if they can be bothered to understand it?! hehe"al" isn't a word.But why would he want his name to be in the منصوب?! :D:p
    I know you were joking, but you do know that most people probably would pronounce their names how they would normally pronounce it in their colloquial dialect, not the MSA pronunciation? And since the the dialects have freed themselves of the case system عبد would just be "Abd" and not "Abdu" or "Abdun" and so الله would then just be pronounced "allah," and not "ullah."
     

    linguist786

    Senior Member
    English, Gujarati & Urdu
    Josh Adkins said:
    I know you were joking, but you do know that most people probably would pronounce their names how they would normally pronounce it in their colloquial dialect, not the MSA pronunciation? And since the the dialects have freed themselves of the case system عبد would just be "Abd" and not "Abdu" or "Abdun" and so الله would then just be pronounced "allah," and not "ullah."
    Aaah ok. I didn't know that if I'm very honest. I thought names that come from Arabic would always be in Classical Arabic (ie - with strict grammar)
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    The discussion has shifted from contractions to compound words. The thread starter stated that he assumed the word was a contraction. It is not. That's what I was originally responding to.

    Whether it's a compound word is another story. In Arabic, it is two words. In English, you could consider it a compound word because two Arabic words have been fused together to make one English word.

    As for "Abdallah," yes, that's how everybody pronounces it - so most people do indeed spell it with an "a."
     

    linguist786

    Senior Member
    English, Gujarati & Urdu
    elroy said:
    As for "Abdallah," yes, that's how everybody pronounces it - so most people do indeed spell it with an "a."
    Everybody?! That's a huge generalisation!
    I don't think we can say "most people spell such-and-such a way" since we don't know everybody, do we?
     

    cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    You're partly right. I guess Elroy was talking about colloquial. I don't think that عبد الله is pronounced as Abdullah in any colloquial Arabic, it's usually (that's better ? :) Abdalla(h).
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Yes, I was indeed talking about colloquial Arabic. If you don't like "everybody," how about "the vast majority"? :D

    Seriously, if someone introduced himself as "Abdullaah," I might have a hard time keeping a straight face.

    That most people spell it with an "a" is then a logical consequence of the above.
     

    linguist786

    Senior Member
    English, Gujarati & Urdu
    Ah OK. That makes it clearer.
    I can say, though, that Abdullah's in the UK are mostly spelt with a "u".
    I have three friends called that, and they all spell it with a "u". But thanks for that.

    :)
    Moe
     

    Whodunit

    Senior Member
    Deutschland ~ Deutsch/Sächsisch
    I think we all agree that "hezbollah" can be considered a compound word in English, but not in Arabic, where it is two words. It's not a contraction, agreed.

    Another thought: Would "inshallah" be a contraction of three words to one?

    linguist786 said:
    "al" isn't a word.
    Oh, what else then? Is "the" a word or just a prefix? The Arabic word for "my" (= ii) is a word, too. I can't help it that it's added to the words.
     

    linguist786

    Senior Member
    English, Gujarati & Urdu
    Whodunit said:
    I think we all agree that "hezbollah" can be considered a compound word in English, but not in Arabic, where it is two words. It's not a contraction, agreed.

    Another thought: Would "inshallah" be a contraction of three words to one?
    I would agree on that
    Whodunit said:
    Oh, what else then? Is "the" a word or just a prefix? The Arabic word for "my" (= ii) is a word, too. I can't help it that it's added to the words.
    Well I wouldn't consider "al" as a word in its own right - just a prefix added to a word to make it definite.

    Similary "ii" isn't a word in its own right - just a suffix added to another word to show possession of the first person singular.

    (In English, it translates to another full word (ie - بيتي = my house) but we're talking about Arabic here remember...)

    :)
    Moe
     

    cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    Yes, I agree that both Hizbollah and Inshallah are contracted words in English, but not in Arabic.

    Whodunit said:
    Oh, what else then? Is "the" a word or just a prefix? The Arabic word for "my" (= ii) is a word, too. I can't help it that it's added to the words.
    Arabic grammar differentiate between words الأسماء and what we may translate literaly as "letters" الحروف .
    al is, in Arabic, a "letter" حرف or more precisely أداة تعريف which means it can't be counted as a word.

    Also the "ii" ي for "my" is not a word, it's a letter, or more precisely ضمير ملكية which , again, means that it can't be considered as a word.

    One more thing, the first two letters of Allah الله are not considered as separate definite "marker", the word Allah is taken as a whole, not ال+إله -with my respect to Elroy's opinion- and if I may present one little proof :
    The definite article ال is a "hamzat wasl" همزة وصل which means that we don't pronounce it 2al : like هذه الكرة hadhihi'l-kura; while we can say ya 2allah يا الله .
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    cherine said:
    Yes, I agree that both Hizbollah and Inshallah are contracted words in English, but not in Arabic.
    I think you mean "compound words," don't you? Unless you're referring to the fact that the ء of إن شاء الله is not pronounced. Remember that for any word to be a contraction there has to be at least one letter that is dropped.
    Arabic grammar differentiate between words الأسماء and what we may translate literaly as "letters" الحروف .
    I think these are traditionally translated as "particles" into English.
    One more thing, the first two letters of Allah الله are not considered as separate definite "marker", the word Allah is taken as a whole, not ال+إله -with my respect to Elroy's opinion- and if I may present one little proof :
    The definite article ال is a "hamzat wasl" همزة وصل which means that we don't pronounce it 2al : like هذه الكرة hadhihi'l-kura; while we can say ya 2allah يا الله .
    Granted, but the ا in الله is also a همزة وصل, because the word originally comes from ال+إله. While you do say "ya 2allaah," you say "wallaah" ("and God") and not "wa 2allaah." I have no idea why it's different with يا, but I do maintain that 99% of the time the ا in الله behaves exactly like the one in the definite article.
     

    cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    I think you mean "compound words," don't you? Unless you're referring to the fact that the ء of إن شاء الله is not pronounced. Remember that for any word to be a contraction there has to be at least one letter that is dropped.
    Correct. Excuse my English :)

    I think these are traditionally translated as "particles" into English.
    Yes, I think so. Thanks.

    Granted, but the ا in الله is also a همزة وصل, because the word originally comes from ال+إله. While you do say "ya 2allaah," you say "wallaah" ("and God") and not "wa 2allaah." I have no idea why it's different with يا, but I do maintain that 99% of the time the ا in الله behaves exactly like the one in the definite article.
    You're right. الله is usually a hamzat waSl. I think that either ways, this word remains unique in the sense that it doesn't follow a strict rule.
     

    Whodunit

    Senior Member
    Deutschland ~ Deutsch/Sächsisch
    elroy said:
    I think you mean "compound words," don't you? Unless you're referring to the fact that the ء of إن شاء الله is not pronounced. Remember that for any word to be a contraction there has to be at least one letter that is dropped.
    When I pronounced "inshallah" as it is written, it could be written as إن ش الله, because I don't say the hamza and only one time a short "a", which could be the alef of "allah". I would consider it a contraction - rather than a compound or rather than one could consider "hezbollah" a contraction.
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Whodunit said:
    When I pronounced "inshallah" as it is written, it could be written as إن ش الله, because I don't say the hamza and only one time a short "a", which could be the alef of "allah". I would consider it a contraction - rather than a compound or rather than one could consider "hezbollah" a contraction.
    Whodunit, I said,
    Unless you're referring to the fact that the ء of إن شاء الله is not pronounced.
    which means that that would justify considering it a contraction. One should bear in mind, however, that "inshaalla" (not "inshallah" - which is an imprecise transliteration) is a colloquial pronunciation of the phrase. In standard Arabic it's always "in shaa2a 'llaah."
     

    fenixpollo

    moderator
    American English
    What a fascinating conversation. I'd like to return to the original question by asking for more clarification about the pronunciation of Hezbollah. In the American media, I've heard it hez-BALL-uh, hez-bull-AH, hizz-BOLL-ah.... is there a correct way to pronounce it? How do most hezbollians pronounce it? ;)
     

    Whodunit

    Senior Member
    Deutschland ~ Deutsch/Sächsisch
    Hi, Fenixpollo, good to see you here. :)

    I have also noticed that most German newscasters pronounce it wrong, but it would sound awkward if it was said in correct Arabic within a German text.

    I think the English word "ball" is close to the Arabic "boll." The "h" is an aspirate, as if you were running a skyscraper up and down and said "his." :)

    I'm not sure about the stress, but since it is two words in Arabic, I'd rather emphasize the first syllable.
     

    cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    Actually the stress is on the last syllable "laah", it's longer than "Hizb". The vowel between the two syllables varies -from the point of view of Arabic grammar- according to the case (genetive, accusative....) But it's generally pronounced as hizbol-laah
    The "a" is like in the English word "arm" (again, it's longer).

    :eek: Maybe if you manage to listen to Arabic speaking Radio or TV you'd get much better chance than all the nonsens I'm writing here.
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Actually, I think a more accurate transliteration would be "Hizbullaah."

    "i" as in "pig"
    "u" as in "put"
    "a" as in "father"
    "H" as Whodunit described (I guess ;))
    "h" as in "hop"
    "ll" doubled as in Italian
    emphasis on "aa"
     

    Whodunit

    Senior Member
    Deutschland ~ Deutsch/Sächsisch
    elroy said:
    "ll" doubled as in Italian
    I'm not sure if the Italian "L" is pronounced as in English, but I think - judging from French - it is another ("harder") kind of L. In German, the L is soft (that's why many newscasters pronounce Hezbollah/Hisbollah so strangely), and in English it is soft.

    Arabic has a soft L (as in "lam"), but also the hard counterpart, especially - or only? - in the word "Allah."
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Whodunit said:
    I'm not sure if the Italian "L" is pronounced as in English, but I think - judging from French - it is another ("softer") kind of L. In German, the L is hard (that's why many newscasters pronounce Hezbollah/Hisbollah so strangely), and in English it is soft.

    Arabic has a hard L (as in "lam"), but also the soft counterpart, especially - or only? - in the word "Allah."
    I don't know what you're getting at, but all I was saying was that the "l" was doubled as in Italian, meaning that it needed to be pronounced twice - unlike in English, where the doubling of a consonant doesn't affect its pronunciation.
     

    Whodunit

    Senior Member
    Deutschland ~ Deutsch/Sächsisch
    The English and German L's are different, as you should know. The Arabic one is usually pronounced like the German L as in "Ball", whereas in "Allah," it is pronounced like in English "ball". For instance, the French "L" sounds like the German one, and the Russian one sounds like the English "L."

    I hope it's clearer now. :)
     

    elroy

    Imperfect Mod
    US English/Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Whodunit said:
    The English and German L's are different, as you should know. The Arabic one is usually pronounced like the German L as in "Ball", whereas in "Allah," it is pronounced like in English "ball". For instance, the French "L" sounds like the German one, and the Russian one sounds like the English "L."

    I hope it's clearer now. :)
    I just said "ball" and "Allaah" and I don't think the l's are pronounced exactly the same.

    Either way, the differences between the l's are subtle so I'm sure Fenix will be ok if he pronounced the l like an American l. What was more important to me was the fact that it needed to be doubled.

    If you want to discuss the pronunciation of different l's in different languages, feel free to open a new thread somewhere. ;)
     

    fenixpollo

    moderator
    American English
    Thanks, guys. I don't have access to Arabic radio or TV, and I don't know anyone who is a native speaker of Arabic... so your advice is invaluable to me.

    I'm not so concerned about the pronunciation of the consonants, but of the vowels and the stress. So it appears like you are saying that the pronunciation is like "hiz" "ball" (or is it "bull"?) "laah". But is the stress on the second or the third syllable? Hiz-BULL-ah or hiz-bul-LAH?
     

    cherine

    Moderator
    Arabic (Egypt).
    Ok. How about this one ?
    You'll see three columns : the Arabic text, the transliteration, and -between them- the translation.
    In the middle one, scroll down to verse # (58:22), then click on the arrow in the transliteration cell/column. You'll hear the recitation of the verse (be patient, it's not that long :) ) at the end of the verse, you'll hear the word Hizbollah/hizbullah pronounced twice (Ĥizbu Allāhi - Ĥizba Allāhi ), this is what I meant by the change in the vowel after the "b".

    I hope this is helpful. Please let me know if it's not (and hopefully if it is :D )


    P.S. By the way, this is where the name of the Lebanese "party/organization" came from. It's the only time the expression "hizbullah" is mentioned in the Qur'an. It's mentioned as a contrast of the Hizbush'shaytaan (the party of Satan) : those who don't believe in God.
     

    Anatoli

    Senior Member
    Native: русский (Russian), home country: English
    I heard "Hizbullah" mentioned on Arabic news. IMHO, the L is softish like German / French but doubled like Russian / Italian. It sounds a bit darker (harder) than normal Arabic L.

    I also listened to the Qur'anic pronunciation, same result.
     

    Abu Bishr

    Senior Member
    Afrikaans, South Africa
    Hi Guys

    On the issue of 'hizbullah' being a compound or not. The answer, to the best of my knowledge, is that it is a compound refered to in Arabic as a مركب إضافي (genitive compound / construct) in the same way that عبد الله is a compound. However, عبد الله literally means (servant of God) but is often used as a proper noun ('alam), that is, a name that someone is called by. Therefore, should I say: أنا عبد الله it lends itself to two interpretations: (1) I'm the servant of God & (2) I'm Abdullah. The second is used in the sense of a proper noun.

    Now, the same applies to حزب الله which, in the Quran, is used in the sense of "the Party of Allah" as opposed to حزب الشيطان "the Party of Shaytan". Hizbullah, on the other hand, have taken this expression and used it as a proper name denoting their group or party. Having said that, حزب الله , Islamically & Quranically speaking, can refer to any group that do not serve the ideals of Saytan. This is clear from the fact that the Quran uses this term to denote a certain group of people and not the "Hizbullah" in Lebanon. However, because it can be said that Hizbullah of Lebanon identifies themselves with this group they see the Quranic verse as referring to them. This comes down to the debate between contextualizing a verse or essentializing it. The former refers to interpreting a verse with specific reference to the context in which it was revealed & the second to any context & not necessary that of 7th Century Arabia.

    I'm sorry if I have digressed somewhat but I thought a little bit of Quranic hermeneutics would give a clearer understanding of the term 'Hizbullah' and how it came to be adopted by the Lebanese group.
     

    Whodunit

    Senior Member
    Deutschland ~ Deutsch/Sächsisch
    I heard "Hizbullah" mentioned on Arabic news. IMHO, the L is softish like German / French but doubled like Russian / Italian. It sounds a bit darker (harder) than normal Arabic L.

    I also listened to the Qur'anic pronunciation, same result.
    You are right about the doubling, undoubtedly. But I still don't think that it should be pronounced like the soft German one. Another example (1; Sūrat Al-Fātiĥah) still gives me the impression that one pronounces it like the L in English "ball".
     

    Abu Bishr

    Senior Member
    Afrikaans, South Africa
    Hi everybody

    In the art of Quranic recitation (called 'Tajwiid') scholars distinquish between two ways of pronouncing the Laam in (الله) . The first is called Tafkhiim (to make thick) when preceded by a Dammah or a Fathah (i.e. /u/ or /a/ vowel) and the second is called Tarqiiq (to make thin) when prceded by a Kasrah (/i/ vowel). The Laam of (الله) in Surah al-Fathihah, thus, is of the type to which you apply Tarqiiq, which is basically the way you pronounce your standard Laam, so it cannot be used to point out the way the Laam is pronounced in the word حزب الله except in the case of vowel-marking the Baa of (Hizb) with a Kasrah.The manner in which this Laam of Tafkhiim is pronounced according diagrams contained in Tajwiid books is to pronounce the /l/ by raising the back of the tongue almost like pronouncing the ط , ظ , & ض making it hollow like a cup.

    Generally speaking, I have not come across native-English or Afrikaans speakers who are new to the word (Allah) pronounce it as native Arabs or Muslims do. This seems to suggest that its equivalent is not found in either of these languages. As for speakers of other languages I canot really say.
     
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