Hindi-Causative + जाना

Simon-P

New Member
French
I'm reading the 18th lesson of Complete Hindi by Rupert Snell and I don't understand the use of causative in perfective participle form + जाना .

सुहास : प्रताप, टैक्सीवाले को कहलवा दो कि वह चला जाए ।
सुरेश : हाँ, टैक्सी को तो बाद में वपास बुलवाया जा साकता है

and further :

मेरे लन्दन में रहते समय,जो भारतीय मूल के परिवार वहाँ बस गए हैं,वे मुझसे अपने बच्चों को कथक सिखवाते थे । अब तो मुझे भारत में ही यही काम करने के लिए बुलवाया गया है

the translation given is :

Suresh : Yes, the taxi can be called back later.

And

Now I've been called to do the same work in India.


I don't doubt the translation but I don't understand:

Are these two examples causatives in the passive form (perfective participle + जाना ) ???

What are their subjects?

What would a literal translation be like ?

Could you give me some more examples of this construction with a translation the more literal possible ?

I understand the causative ( वे मुझसे अपने बच्चों को कथक सिखवाते थे literally: “they had me cause their children to learn kathak” ) but I can't see the meaning of causative +jana...
 
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  • littlepond

    Senior Member
    Hindi
    I understand the causative ( वे मुझसे अपने बच्चों को कथक सिखवाते थे literally: “they had me cause their children to learn kathak” ) but I can't see the meaning of causative +jana...

    Other forum members who know to explain grammar better will hopefully give a good explanation, but I didn't understand the "cause" part (made bold by me) in your "literal" meaning.
    The literal meaning of the Hindi sentence is "they used to get their children learn kathak from me": note that in your translation, tense also seems wrong.
    The causative simply means getting something done by someone else's agency (than your own self).
     

    Simon-P

    New Member
    French
    सीखना to learn , सिखाना: to teach (to cause to learn), i gave the most literal translation i could

    You're right about the time सिखवाते थे implies "used to".



    but what i don't understand is the causatives perfect paticiples +jana, i 'd really like a explanation of this construction and if possible some more examples.
     
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    MonsieurGonzalito

    Senior Member
    Castellano de Argentina
    I would like to try explaining this one, using my great knowledge of Hindi ;)

    First of all, regarding the causative part: I wouldn't put too much stress on that.
    Once you get a verb translation that more or less suits the meaning: for (bulvaanaa, "call" in the sense of "summon"), just translate it like that and stop trying to shoehorn "cause to's" in the comprehension of your sentence, or you will go crazy.

    With the causative part out of the way, we don't really need to search for a "causative perfect participle + jaanaa" pattern, but simply for a "perfect participle + jaanaa" pattern. Which is the passive voice.

    In the case of: bulvaayaa jaa saktaa hai
    what happens is that said pattern is mixed with the pattern for "be able to do something", i.e., "verbal root" + "saktaa hai".

    So I would assume Hindi speakers perceive the bulvaayaa jaa as the passive voice equivalent of the simple verbal root in an active sentence.

    main bulvaa saktaa huuN == I can summon ... (whatever)
    vah bulvaayaa jaa saktaa hai == that can be summoned



    What are their subjects?

    In that sentence, the semantical subject is the taxi, which in Hindi is idiomatically expressed using the oblique case: Taiksii ko

    In your second example, which doesn't have the complication of "saktaa hai":

    mujhe kaam karne ke lie bulvaayaa gayaa hai === I have been called to work.

    The subject is "I", again expressed in oblique: mujhe


    (These are all reasonable suppositions, have someone who really speaks the language to verify them)
     

    Simon-P

    New Member
    French
    and stop trying to shoehorn "cause to's" in the comprehension of your sentence, or you will go crazy
    until now i had no problem translating literally in my mind but it may have been the cause of my failure to understand these two sentences.

    I think you're right and it's just two passive voice verbs with a " को " subject...
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    I'm reading the 18th lesson of Complete Hindi by Rupert Snell and I don't understand the use of causative in perfective participle form + जाना .

    सुहास : प्रताप, टैक्सीवाले को कहलवा दो कि वह चला जाए ।
    सुरेश : हाँ, टैक्सी को तो बाद में वपास बुलवाया जा साकता है

    and further :

    मेरे लन्दन में रहते समय,जो भारतीय मूल के परिवार वहाँ बस गए हैं,वे मुझसे अपने बच्चों को कथक सिखवाते थे । अब तो मुझे भारत में ही यही काम करने के लिए बुलवाया गया है

    the translation given is :

    Suresh : Yes, the taxi can be called back later.

    And

    Now I've been called to do the same work in India.


    I don't doubt the translation but I don't understand:

    Are these two examples causatives in the passive form (perfective participle + जाना ) ???

    What are their subjects?

    What would a literal translation be like ?

    Could you give me some more examples of this construction with a translation the more literal possible ?

    I understand the causative ( वे मुझसे अपने बच्चों को कथक सिखवाते थे literally: “they had me cause their children to learn kathak” ) but I can't see the meaning of causative +jana...

    सुरेश : हाँ, टैक्सी को तो बाद में वपास बुलवाया जा साकता है

    Let's just concentrate on this one sentence and assume that Simon-P and Qureshpor are good friends.

    Simon-P: kyaa tum mere liye Taxi ko bulaa sakte ho? (Can you call a taxi for me?)

    Qureshpor: maiN to is vaqt masruuf huuN lekin maiN Taxi ko bulvaa saktaa huuN.

    (As for me, I am (rather) busy at the moment but I can get someone to call a taxi (for you))

    Simon-P: achchhaa, to tum kisii aur aadamii se Taxi bulvaa'o ge?

    (OK, so you will have the taxi called by someone else?)

    Qureshpor: haaN, kyoN nahiiN! Taxi ko kisii aur se bulvaayaa jaa saktaa hai. zaruurii nahiiN maiN hii bulaa'uuN!

    (Yes, why not! The taxi can be called over by someone else. I don't necessarily have to call it!)

    bulaanaa = to call

    bulaayaa jaanaa = to be called (passive voice)

    bulaa saknaa = to be able to call

    bulaayaa jaa saknaa = to be able to be called

    bulvaayaa jaa saknaa = to be able to be called by a third party
     
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    Simon-P

    New Member
    French
    thanks for your answer Qureshpor , it helped me a lot

    the सकना construction is not a problem, the difficulty was to comprehend what could be the passive voice of the causative बुलवाना


    Now, it's clear
     
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