Hindi: pronunciation of nasal N 'ओं, एं'

marrish

Senior Member
اُردو Urdu
Dear forum members,

I would like to share my doubt and ask you all for opinion, based on what you have heard.

I am not really sure but as far as I can recall, I heard a couple of times the final nasal sound in plural oblique words being dropped. It would be a very interesting phenomenon, maybe a local one, I really don't know. I think the nasal sound in feminine plural and in the postposition meN was also the subject of this alternative pronunciation.

Eg. दोनों donoN -> दोनो dono,
किताबों में kitaaboN meN -> किताबो मे kitaabo me
किताबें kitaabeN -> किताबे kitaabe
लड़कों के साथ laRkoN ke saath -> लड़को के साथ laRko ke saath

 
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  • Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    I have been told by reliable sources that both "donoN" and "dono" are correct. I believe I have seen "dono" in writing in Urdu but I won't be able to tell you where, in case you begin another one of your interrogations!:)
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    Thank you for your reply. Yes, I do not have to start interrogating you because I know the answer: kahiiN, and this with a distinctly articulated nasal N! :)
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Thank you for your reply. Yes, I do not have to start interrogating you because I know the answer: kahiiN, and this with a distinctly articulated nasal N! :)
    May be this too is like saikRaa/saiNkRaa, all depending on how your nose is feeling at a particular moment in time!

    H دونو दोनोdono = H دونون दोनों donoṅ [obl. pl. of do; and=Prk. दोण्हं or दोण्हहुं (gen. plur.)], adj. The two, both, both of them:—donoṅ t̤araf, adv. On both sides:—donoṅ-ke donoṅ, adj.=donoṅ:—donoṅ waqt milte, adv. At the mingline of day and night, at dusk:—donoṅ waqt milnā, Day and night to mingle, day to shade into night, to become dusk:—donoṅ hāth tālī bajānā, lit. 'To clap with both bands'; to reciprocate, to meet half way; to give as good as one gets.
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    May be this too is like saikRaa/saiNkRaa, all depending on how your nose is feeling at a particular moment in time!

    H دونو दोनोdono = H دونون दोनों donoṅ [obl. pl. of do; and=Prk. दोण्हं or दोण्हहुं (gen. plur.)], adj. The two, both, both of them:—donoṅ t̤araf, adv. On both sides:—donoṅ-ke donoṅ, adj.=donoṅ:—donoṅ waqt milte, adv. At the mingline of day and night, at dusk:—donoṅ waqt milnā, Day and night to mingle, day to shade into night, to become dusk:—donoṅ hāth tālī bajānā, lit. 'To clap with both bands'; to reciprocate, to meet half way; to give as good as one gets.
    Thank you again. It is very informative. In the meantime I added a couple of other examples.
     

    souminwé

    Senior Member
    North American English, Hindi
    The word dono is definitely something I often say without any nasal, and same with meN (for some reason, I find saying meN difficult, same goes for maiN). However, not nasalising the plural oblique or the plural feminine would sound markedly incorrect - for me they have a heavy nasal sound.
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    Indeed, dono and me was the incentive to start this thread!
    In case of pronunciation problems, please know that you are not alone! I mostly don't pronounce the N in maiN ne.

    Your opinion on the plural oblique (actually donoN is also one of them) and plural feminines is much appreciated - these I heard scarcely, for most part not in plural feminines, but in -oN.


    Maybe I'm wrong.
     

    BDC

    New Member
    English
    I have been listening and have not heard the nasal sound. And I have been trying! I just thought that no one actually used them. Marrish, are you saying that you have dropped trying to use it altogether?

    I have been thinking that it was irrelevant.

    I am talkng about Hindi here.
     

    UrduMedium

    Senior Member
    Urdu (Karachi)
    I have been listening and have not heard the nasal sound. And I have been trying! I just thought that no one actually used them. Marrish, are you saying that you have dropped trying to use it altogether?

    I have been thinking that it was irrelevant.

    I am talkng about Hindi here.
    Not sure of this example pertinent here or not (as here the nasal is on a verb not noun)


    ab ke ham bicchRe to shayad kabhii xwaboN meN mileN
    jis taraH suukhe hue phuul kitaboN meN mileN


    Dropping the last nasal completely changes the meaning. Also without the nasal, xwaboN and kitaboN sounds incomplete.
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    I have been listening and have not heard the nasal sound. And I have been trying! I just thought that no one actually used them. Marrish, are you saying that you have dropped trying to use it altogether?

    I have been thinking that it was irrelevant.

    I am talkng about Hindi here.
    Thank you for your feedback. Seemingly the nasals are indeed not always properly articulated. I do use them (the nasal sound) very much, sometimes more than enough!
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    Not sure of this example pertinent here or not (as here the nasal is on a verb not noun)


    ab ke ham bicchRe to shayad kabhii xwaboN meN mileN
    jis taraH suukhe hue phuul kitaboN meN mileN


    Dropping the last nasal completely changes the meaning. Also without the nasal, xwaboN and kitaboN sounds incomplete.
    It is surely correct what you said above but I haven't ask for verbs.
    xwaabo, kitaabo sounds incomplete, indeed, I feel like completing it like xwaabo xarosh, kitaabo qalam.
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    It is surely correct what you said above but I haven't ask for verbs.
    xwaabo, kitaabo sounds incomplete, indeed, I feel like completing it like xwaabo xarosh, kitaabo qalam.
    You may have come across some people who actually ADD the nasal when it is n't there!

    logoN! xudaa kaa xauf karo!

    ai bahaaroN! meraa jiivan bhii saNvaaro.
     

    marrish

    Senior Member
    اُردو Urdu
    You may have come across some people who actually ADD the nasal when it is n't there!

    logoN! xudaa kaa xauf karo!

    ai bahaaroN! meraa jiivan bhii saNvaaro.
    You are very right! They do it indeed! I would say:

    logo!!! xudaa kaa xauf karo aur aise nah bolo!!!
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    In response to the following from another thread "To agree", I wrote..

    Do some native speakers of Hindi miss out the nasal in their speech for "maiN","maiN ne", "tumheN" etc or are these all just typos?
    'As soon as we agreed on it, I will tell you.' would be: "Jaise hi hum log is par sahmat honge, mai tumhe bataa dunga/dungi."

    "Raazii hona" is correct and would mean "to agree". Like in, Mai raazii/sahmat ho gaya.

    "Raazi karna" would mean "to make someone agree." Like in, Maine Ramesh ko raazii/sahmat kar liya.
    I don't personally think these are typos. In this forum other "native" Hindi speakers have also displayed this phenomenon. I too am curious for the reason behind this.
     

    greatbear

    Banned
    India - Hindi & English
    Speaking for me personally, I sometimes add nasals where there aren't any! As for JaiHind's post, I believe it was mere carelessness, since I can't imagine a "tumheN" without the nasal.
     

    tonyspeed

    Senior Member
    English & Creole - Jamaica
    Take a look at "Raj Thackeray - in HINDI interview Exclusively with Mandar Phanse - PART 1". At second 00:50 he pronounces maiN 3 times. I hear the nasal. But then at 00:58 he says "vahii saarii chiize", dropping the nasal. Can we view this as a mistake? Even at 00:53, to me it sounds like he says "bate bol rahaa hooN"
     

    greatbear

    Banned
    India - Hindi & English
    Take a look at "Raj Thackeray - in HINDI interview Exclusively with Mandar Phanse - PART 1". At second 00:50 he pronounces maiN 3 times. I hear the nasal. But then at 00:58 he says "vahii saarii chiize", dropping the nasal. Can we view this as a mistake? Even at 00:53, to me it sounds like he says "bate bol rahaa hooN"
    I don't think he is a native Hindi speaker anyway, he's Marathi.
     
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