Dear forum members,

I would like to share my doubt and ask you all for opinion, based on what you have heard.

I am not really sure but as far as I can recall, I heard a couple of times the final nasal sound in plural oblique words being dropped. It would be a very interesting phenomenon, maybe a local one, I really don't know. I think the nasal sound in feminine plural and in the postposition meN was also the subject of this alternative pronunciation.

Eg. दोनों donoN -> दोनो dono,
किताबों में kitaaboN meN -> किताबो मे kitaabo me
किताबें kitaabeN -> किताबे kitaabe
लड़कों के साथ laRkoN ke saath -> लड़को के साथ laRko ke saath

 

I have been told by reliable sources that both "donoN" and "dono" are correct. I believe I have seen "dono" in writing in Urdu but I won't be able to tell you where, in case you begin another one of your interrogations!

 

Thank you for your reply. Yes, I do not have to start interrogating you because I know the answer: kahiiN, and this with a distinctly articulated nasal N!

 

May be this too is like saikRaa/saiNkRaa, all depending on how your nose is feeling at a particular moment in time!

H دونو दोनोdono = H دونون दोनों donoṅ [obl. pl. of do; and=Prk. दोण्हं or दोण्हहुं (gen. plur.)], adj. The two, both, both of them:—donoṅ t̤araf, adv. On both sides:—donoṅ-ke donoṅ, adj.=donoṅ:—donoṅ waqt milte, adv. At the mingline of day and night, at dusk:—donoṅ waqt milnā, Day and night to mingle, day to shade into night, to become dusk:—donoṅ hāth tālī bajānā, lit. 'To clap with both bands'; to reciprocate, to meet half way; to give as good as one gets.

 

Thank you again. It is very informative. In the meantime I added a couple of other examples.

 

The word dono is definitely something I often say without any nasal, and same with meN (for some reason, I find saying meN difficult, same goes for maiN). However, not nasalising the plural oblique or the plural feminine would sound markedly incorrect - for me they have a heavy nasal sound.

 

Indeed, dono and me was the incentive to start this thread!
In case of pronunciation problems, please know that you are not alone! I mostly don't pronounce the N in maiN ne.

Your opinion on the plural oblique (actually donoN is also one of them) and plural feminines is much appreciated - these I heard scarcely, for most part not in plural feminines, but in -oN.


Maybe I'm wrong.

 

It seems Hindi is not so popular on this Forum in stark contrast to Urdu.

 

I have been listening and have not heard the nasal sound. And I have been trying! I just thought that no one actually used them. Marrish, are you saying that you have dropped trying to use it altogether?

I have been thinking that it was irrelevant.

I am talkng about Hindi here.

 

Not sure of this example pertinent here or not (as here the nasal is on a verb not noun)


ab ke ham bicchRe to shayad kabhii xwaboN meN mileN
jis taraH suukhe hue phuul kitaboN meN mileN


Dropping the last nasal completely changes the meaning. Also without the nasal, xwaboN and kitaboN sounds incomplete.

 

Thank you for your feedback. Seemingly the nasals are indeed not always properly articulated. I do use them (the nasal sound) very much, sometimes more than enough!

 

It is surely correct what you said above but I haven't ask for verbs.
xwaabo, kitaabo sounds incomplete, indeed, I feel like completing it like xwaabo xarosh, kitaabo qalam.

 

You may have come across some people who actually ADD the nasal when it is n't there!

logoN! xudaa kaa xauf karo!

ai bahaaroN! meraa jiivan bhii saNvaaro.

 

You are very right! They do it indeed! I would say:

logo!!! xudaa kaa xauf karo aur aise nah bolo!!!

 

In response to the following from another thread "To agree", I wrote..

Do some native speakers of Hindi miss out the nasal in their speech for "maiN","maiN ne", "tumheN" etc or are these all just typos?

I don't personally think these are typos. In this forum other "native" Hindi speakers have also displayed this phenomenon. I too am curious for the reason behind this.

 

Speaking for me personally, I sometimes add nasals where there aren't any! As for JaiHind's post, I believe it was mere carelessness, since I can't imagine a "tumheN" without the nasal.

 

Take a look at "Raj Thackeray - in HINDI interview Exclusively with Mandar Phanse - PART 1". At second 00:50 he pronounces maiN 3 times. I hear the nasal. But then at 00:58 he says "vahii saarii chiize", dropping the nasal. Can we view this as a mistake? Even at 00:53, to me it sounds like he says "bate bol rahaa hooN"

 

I don't think he is a native Hindi speaker anyway - in fact he even considers Hindi speakers as enemies - so it seems irrelevant to the thread here.

 

hahaha. ok. technically, point taken, but if he hated Hindi so much he wouldn't be speaking it. Take politicians words with a grain of salt. They often do things for power, and no other reason.
Politicians also tend to like agitation to drive away opposition. They often say things that are contrary for the sake of inciting a response.

 

Of course, his political stance might be only for political gain's sake, but he is a Marathi native speaker, which remains a fact regardless of the color of his politics.

 

So, when native speakers make errors, it is due to their "carelessness". When non-natives do the same, it is due to their "non-nativeness". Could he also not have been "careless"? Even if Marathi speakers have a tendency (I don't know, I am guessing) of missing out nasals, surely there must be some Marathis who do pronounce Hindi perfectly correctly, almost as well as the "natives".

 

Of course there are Marathis who speak very fine Hindi! My only point was that it's not a good example to take, since the speaker is Marathi, not Hindi. He may have done it out of carelessness or not, that wasn't the point. You persist in seeing red everywhere, QP, and your confrontationist attitude isn't very healthy for the forum discussions.

 

I disagree of course about "seeing red". Regarding your second part, if there was a truer case of the "Pot calling the kettle black", then you surely are a prime example! A number of idioms/proverbs come to mind. Whichever path you now decide to take, I shall be there to greet you.

jaisaa karo ge, vaisaa bharo ge

iiNT kaa javaab patthar

shiishe ke gharoN meN rahne vaale duusroN par patthar nahiiN phenKte.

..........................................................

miiThe bol meN jaaduu hai

jis kisii ne miiThii baat kii, us ne kaRvii nah sunii

kar bhalaa ho gaa bhalaa

 

Thank you for the sayings, Qureshpor SaaHib!

Until now, there have been opinions that the nasals are dropped in certain words by the ''native speakers'' and dropping them in writing by the ''native speakers'' is due to carelessness whereas not articulating them in speech can be explained through not speaking Hindi as the first language.

We haven't reached far yet, I'm afraid. We still don't know how the nasals are treated in spoken language by the ''natives'' and whether this phenomenon occurs at all in speech. Or is it limited to dropping dots in writing?

 

I am afraid that you are putting a spin on what's said so far. I didn't find any such generalization in the whole discussion that says that native speakers drop nasals for carelessness or that not articulating them can be explained through speaking Hindi as the first language. From where did you arrive at those?

 

It is not a question of generalizing but the one of putting some opinions which we have up to now, together.
As a matter of fact I don't understand how come you draw the conclusion that not articulating nasals can be explained through speaking Hindi as the first language.

Having said that, I can't see that this post of yours adds anything to the discussion.

 

hai mard-i-suxan-saaz bhii dunyaa meN 3ajab chiiz
paa'o ge kisii fan meN kahiiN band nah us ko

dono meN se ko'ii naho to aap haiN sab kuchh
par hech haiN jis vaqt kih maujuud hoN dono

Hali

 

This is not directly connected with your question but if you look in Farhang-i-Asafiyyah under "maa, you will find a number of entries where the nasal has been dropped from the word "maaN". The same applies for the nasal in "maamuuN" where both "maamuu" and "maamuuN" are given side by side.