Hindi-Urdu: गाँव-गाओं, झुकाव-झुकाओ

[Qureshpor]

In Hindi, words for village, foot, shade are written as गाँव (gaaNv), पाँव (paaNv) and छाँव (chhaNv) whereas in Urdu they are written as गाओं (gaa'oN), पाओं (paa'oN) and छाओं (chhaa'oN). I hasten to add that in older Urdu printed material one does find the former style.

Similarly for verbal nouns, Hindi has the-aav ending as in झुकाव (jhukaav) but Urdu style prefers-aao (झुकाओ)*. My question is this. Does one pronounce the "v" in -aav as a "v" or is it something half way between v and o? I hope my question is clear.

* One benefit of this, as far as Urdu is concerned is that poets are able to rhyme verbs with verbal nouns, e,g. apnii garden jhukaa'o (bend your neck) and "gardan kaa jhukaa'o" (The inclination of the neck).

 

[tonyspeed]

I have heard it pronounced both ways in Hindi, specifically with the word dabaav. Although I wonder if the "aav" version is a product of spelling or did it already exist. In either case, BOTH pronunciations make sense since w and v sounds are somewhat of allophones in Hindi/Urdu. jhukaaw sounds like jhukaao .

 

[greatbear]

The ending "v" is just like the final "w" in the English word "wow".

 

[Qureshpor]

The ending "v" is just like the final "w" in the English word "wow".

If this is indeed the case, then would the pronunciation of the underlined words be identical?

daraxt ke DaaloN kaa jhukaav/w aisaa thaa kih baRii aasaanii se phal toRaa jaa saktaa thaa.

yaar maiN aap ke sar pih pagRii kaise baaNdhuuN? zaraa apne sar ko to jhukaa'o.

 

[Qureshpor]

I have heard it pronounced both ways in Hindi, specifically with the word dabaav. Although I wonder if the "aav" version is a product of spelling or did it already exist. In either case, BOTH pronunciations make sense since w and v sounds are somewhat of allophones in Hindi/Urdu. jhukaaw sounds like jhukaao .

Tony, do you perceive the -aav/w and -aa'o sounds to be different or identical?

 

[greatbear]

If this is indeed the case, then would the pronunciation of the underlined words be identical?

daraxt ke DaaloN kaa jhukaav/w aisaa thaa kih baRii aasaanii se phal toRaa jaa saktaa thaa.

yaar maiN aap ke sar pih pagRii kaise baaNdhuuN? zaraa apne sar ko to jhukaa'o.

Identical.

 

[tonyspeed]

Tony, do you perceive the -aav/w and -aa'o sounds to be different or identical?

I feel like this is splitting hairs. But since I have not heard enough Urdu speakers I cannot answer this question.

 

[Qureshpor]

I feel like this is splitting hairs. But since I have not heard enough Urdu speakers I cannot answer this question.

Tony, this post is a sincere attempt on my part to find out if there is a difference in the actual pronunciation between the noun (spelt "jhulaav" in Devanagri and jhukaa'o in Urdu) and the verb (spelt jhukaa'o both in Devanagri and Urdu). Now, unless I am mistaken, Urdu speakers pronounce both the noun and the verb identically as "jhukaa'o". I would like to know if in your opinion this is also the case in Hindi. If your answer is "Yes", then you would be in agreement with greatbear. If other Hindi speakers provide the same answer, then the obvious conclusion for me and everyone else to draw would be that the two different ways of representing the noun and the verb in Devanagri is nothing but a spelling convention.

 

[Faylasoof]

Tony, this post is a sincere attempt on my part to find out if there is a difference in the actual pronunciation between the noun (spelt "jhulaav" in Devanagri and jhukaa'o in Urdu) and the verb (spelt jhukaa'o both in Devanagri and Urdu). Now, unless I am mistaken, Urdu speakers pronounce both the noun and the verb identically as "jhukaa'o". I would like to know if in your opinion this is also the case in Hindi. If your answer is "Yes", then you would be in agreement with greatbear. If other Hindi speakers provide the same answer, then the obvious conclusion for me and everyone else to draw would be that the two different ways of representing the noun and the verb in Devanagri is nothing but a spelling convention.

Most of the times I've heard both the noun and the verb being pronounced the same way by my Hindiphone friends as they are by Urduphones but I'm now trying to recall when I heard some of my friends say it with the 'v' ending, i.e. jhukaav / chunaav etc.!

 

[tonyspeed]

Now, unless I am mistaken, Urdu speakers pronounce both the noun and the verb identically as "jhukaa'o". I would like to know if in your opinion this is also the case in Hindi.

Another interesting question would be what happens when the word is stressed for some reason? Or what if someone was pronouncing it slowly for a child or learner or someone hard of hearing?
Would they then continue to sound the same in Hindi? My gut instinct would tell me that for the noun one would tend to elongate the "aa", but for the verb command one would elongate the "o".
Anyone care to comment on this?

 

[greatbear]

Another interesting question would be what happens when the word is stressed for some reason? Or what if someone was pronouncing it slowly for a child or learner or someone hard of hearing?
Would they then continue to sound the same in Hindi? My gut instinct would tell me that for the noun one would tend to elongate the "aa", but for the verb command one would elongate the "o".
Anyone care to comment on this?

My instinct tells me the same.

 

[Qureshpor]

Another interesting question would be what happens when the word is stressed for some reason? Or what if someone was pronouncing it slowly for a child or learner or someone hard of hearing?
Would they then continue to sound the same in Hindi? My gut instinct would tell me that for the noun one would tend to elongate the "aa", but for the verb command one would elongate the "o".
Anyone care to comment on this?

Yes, if I understand you correctly, this is a subject to which I have given considerable thought in the past. IMHO, the noun and the verb have different "tonal" values, in the follwing situations.

gardan ko jhukaa'o.......

gardan kaa jhukaav/jhukaa'o....

Dhol bajaa! (Play the drum!)

ek bajaa hai! (It is one 'o clock)​