Hindi, Urdu: Aese sunne mein aa rahaa thaa ki ...

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bargolus

Member
Danish and English - British
How would you translate this construction into English?

Aese sunne mein aa/mil rahaa thaa ki ... / ऐसे सुनने में आ/मिल रहा था की ... / ... ایسے سننے میں آ/مل رہا تھا کی

Simply, "I heard that..." or "They told me that.."?

But it seems like a very round-about construction to say that.
 
  • Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    For ایسے سننے میں آ رہا تھا کہ which I agree is rather convoluted, one could idiomatically translate it as:

    Things were being said in such a way that
     

    Alfaaz

    Senior Member
    English
    bargolus said:
    How would you translate this construction into English?
    Are you looking for an idiomatic English translation or perhaps a more literal translation to understand the structure and meaning of the Urdu and Hindi phrase? If it is the latter, then the following might be helpful:

    ایسا سننے میں آ رہا تھا کہ - aisaa sunne meN aa rahaa thaa keh

    • ایسا - It/such
    • آ رہا تھا - was coming
    • سننے میں - into hearing/to be heard
    • کہ - that
    ایسا کہنے میں آ رہا تھا کہ - It was starting to be said that/It was being said that/*Rumors were arising that/etc. (*depending on exact context)
     

    bargolus

    Member
    Danish and English - British
    Are you looking for an idiomatic English translation or perhaps a more literal translation to understand the structure and meaning of the Urdu and Hindi phrase? If it is the latter, then the following might be helpful:

    ایسا سننے میں آ رہا تھا کہ - aisaa sunne meN aa rahaa thaa keh

    • ایسا - It/such
    • آ رہا تھا - was coming
    • سننے میں - into hearing/to be heard
    • کہ - that
    ایسا کہنے میں آ رہا تھا کہ - It was starting to be said that/It was being said that/*Rumors were arising that/etc. (*depending on exact context)
    Okay, so it could also be used in the sense of "it came across through the grapevine that..."?

    I'm just trying to understand if there is any difference between this construction and unhone kahaa ki ... or if it is just a colloquial circumlocution like "What they told me was the fact that ..." instead of "They told me that" which doesn't really convey any extra meaning.
     

    Alfaaz

    Senior Member
    English
    unhoN ne kahaa keh would indicate He/She/They said that.

    On the other hand, the phrase that is the topic of this thread doesn't suggest that there is a specific person actively telling you something.

    ماہرینِ موسمیات کہہ رہے تھے کہ اگلے دو دنوں تک بارش ہوتی رہے گی - Meteorologists were saying that it will continue to rain for the next two days.

    کہا جا رہا تھا کہ اگلے دو دنوں تک بارش ہوتی رہے گی - It was being said that it will continue to rain for the next two days.
     

    aevynn

    Senior Member
    USA
    English, Hindustani
    The relevant idiom here is actually a bit more general: sunne meN aanaa, meaning roughly something like "to be heard" or "to begin to be heard" or something along these lines as has been suggested above. My point is just that the verb can be conjugated in a variety of ways. The phrase in the OP is one example, and here are some poetic example of this idiom in action:
    nah sunne meN nah kahiiN dekhne meN aayaa hai​
    jo hijr-o-waSl mire tajurbe meN aayaa hai​
    No one has ever heard of or seen​
    The separation and reunion that has befallen me​
    --------------------​
    sunne meN aa rahe haiN masarrat ke waaqi3aat​
    jumhuuriyat kaa Husn numaayaaN hai aaj kal​
    We're beginning to hear about happy incidents​
    The beauty of democrocy is on show these days​
    --------------------​

    aisaa sunne meN aataa hai​
    anya desh meN​
    chhadm vesh meN ghuum-ghuum kar​
    alakh jagaataa hai hubbu'l-watanii kaa​
    We hear that​
    [He*] roams around in disguise​
    In other countries​
    To awaken the spirit of nationalism.​
    Of course it would probably be slightly more accurate to say something like "it has never been heard of or seen," or "happy incidents are beginning to be heard about," etc, above. But the passive feels quite clumsy to me in English, so I opted for looser translations above to avoid the passive.

    ---

    [*]: The context of the poem does make clear that the reference in these lines is to Rash Behari Bose, but I don't know the story behind his roaming around in disguise in other countries. If someone knows the backstory here, they may be able to propose a better translation.
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    aisaa sunne meN aataa hai​
    anya desh meN​
    chhadm vesh meN ghuum-ghuum kar​
    alakh jagaataa hai hubbu'l-watanii kaa​
    We hear that​
    [He*] roams around in disguise​
    In other countries​
    To awaken the spirit of nationalism.​
    Interesting inclusion of "Hubbu_lvatanii" within Bachchan's language register is interesting. I would say it means "patriotism" more than "nationalism"
     

    bargolus

    Member
    Danish and English - British
    The relevant idiom here is actually a bit more general: sunne meN aanaa, meaning roughly something like "to be heard" or "to begin to be heard" or something along these lines as has been suggested above. My point is just that the verb can be conjugated in a variety of ways. ...
    Interesting - so it should actually be treated similarly to sunai denaa or dikhai denaa or nazar anaa which are Hindi/Urdu-specific constructions I usually just translate into the active in my head, because the passive is not used as much in English.
     

    littlepond

    Senior Member
    Hindi
    the passive is not used as much in English.
    Note that English's passiveness often has a different function. In Hindi it works basically to not specify the agent of the verb (just like the French "on" operates). "sunaaii denaa" is more passive (in the English sense) than "sunaaii aanaa."
     

    aevynn

    Senior Member
    USA
    English, Hindustani
    so it should actually be treated similarly to sunai denaa or dikhai denaa or nazar anaa...
    sunaaii denaa and sunne meN aanaa do seem a bit similar at a syntactic level. In both cases, the nominative argument is the thing being heard, and if you want to explicitly specify the agent (ie, the hearer/listener) in the sentence, you'd probably use a ko-marked noun phrase. I would hypothesize, though, that this agent is left unspecified more often in sunne meN aanaa clauses (perhaps for the reasons explained below).

    I think the main semantic difference I perceive between sunaaii denaa and sunne meN aanaa is related to what the thing being heard is. With sunne meN aanaa, the things being heard are often news items, rumors, hearsay, etc (as opposed to noises, voices, etc). For example, you might say something like this:

    mujhe kal raat ko kutte ke bhauNkne kii aawaaz sunaaii dii​
    I heard a dog barking last night.​

    But the following sentence sounds a bit odd to me:

    #mujhe kal raat ko kutte ke bhauNkne kii aawaaz sunne meN aaii​

    This also suggests a reason why the agent might be left unspecified more often with sunne meN aanaa --- the agent is perhaps more likely to be something very generic like "broad society," so might as well leave it off! But anyway, like most semantic boundaries, this is certainly a bit fuzzy; I'm sure you'll find crossover and variations in usage patterns if you go looking.
     
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