Hindi, Urdu: haathan

[MonsieurGonzalito]

Friends,

The second line of the song "laT uljhii" (the simplified bandish, not the several movie lyrics which use these lines), says:

laT uljhii suljhaa jaa, baalam
haathan mɛhɛndii lagii, more baalam

What kind of inflection is haathan?
In some other lyrics one can find haat, haathoN, or even haath meN, but some singers make a point of pronouncing it haathan.
Is it some old/dialectal form equivalent to haath meN?

Thanks in advance for any help.

(Youtube example: [smURJcbCsIU])

 

[Arbish Ali]

Friends,

The second line of the song "laT uljhii" (the simplified bandish, not the several movie lyrics which use these lines), says:

laT uljhii suljhaa jaa, baalam
haathan mɛhɛndii lagii, more baalam

What kind of inflection is haathan?
In some other lyrics one can find haat, haathoN, or even haath meN, but some singers make a point of pronouncing it haathan.
Is it some old/dialectal form equivalent to haath meN?

Thanks in advance for any help.

(Youtube example: [smURJcbCsIU])

It's an old dialect for haathon pe. Such dialects are still spoken in the subcontinent, like log baataan banaaen ge. Baataan is the plural of baat. Here's a ghazal attributed to khusrau for your understanding.
ze haal e miskiin makun taghaaful doraae nainaan banaae batyaan
ki taab e hijraan nadaaram ai jaan na lehuu kaahe lagaae chhatyaan
shabaan e hijraan daraaz chuun zulf o roz e waslash cho umr e kotaah
sakhii! piyaa ko jo main na dekhuun to kaise kaatuun andherii ratyaan
yakaa-yak az dil do chashm e jaaduu ba sad farebam baburd taskiin
kise paRii hai jo jaa sunaave piyaare pii ko hamaarii batyaan
cho sham' e sozaan, cho zarra hairaan ze mehr e aan mah bagashtam aaKHir
na niind nainaan na ang chainaan na aap aave na bheje patyaan
ba haqq e roz e visaal e dilbar ki daad maa raa fareb KHusrau
sapet manke varaae raakhuun jo jaae paauun piyaa ki khatyaan

 

[littlepond]

"haathan" here would mean "haathoN ko." This "-an" suffix for a noun can be used in two different situations: (1) replacing postposition "ko," as in your example; (2) plural for words that end in consonant (e.g., as in post 2, the plural of "baat" becomes "baatan" instead of the standard "baateN"). Note that post 2 said "baataan": it should be "baatan," rather.

 

[Arbish Ali]

"haathan" here would mean "haathoN ko." This "-an" suffix for a noun can be used in two different situations: (1) replacing postposition "ko," as in your example; (2) plural for words that end in consonant (e.g., as in post 2, the plural of "baat" becomes "baatan" instead of the standard "baateN"). Note that post 2 said "baataan": it should be "baatan," rather.

You are saying the plural of "baat" should be "baatan" (باتں)? But I'm afraid nuun e ghunnah at the end of the word is always followed by a long vowel (harf e illat). It is written as باتاں. And don't say you think its باتن with /n/ consonant (nuun e 'alaaniyya).

 

[desi4life]

You are saying the plural of "baat" should be "baatan" (باتں)? But I'm afraid nuun e ghunnah at the end of the word is always followed by a long vowel (harf e illat). It is written as باتاں. And don't say you think its باتن with /n/ consonant (nuun e 'alaaniyya).

There is no nasal vowel/anunaasik/nuun e Ghunnah in this word. In Brajbhasha the plural is “baatan”, and in other dialects it can be “baataan”. Both are with dental consonantal “n”.

 

[Arbish Ali]

There is no nasal vowel/anunaasik/nuun e Ghunnah in this word. In Brajbhasha the plural is “baatan”, and in other dialects it can be “baataan”. Both are with dental consonantal “n”.

There must be a dental consonant in your dialect, but here in urdu, it's always nasalized.

 

[littlepond]

There must be a dental consonant in your dialect, but here in urdu, it's always nasalized.

It is indeed nasalised in Dakkhani Urdu (as spoken in Bengaluru-Hyderabad area of India), but it is a dental consonant in both Hindi as well as Lakhnavi-Delhi Urdu. And in Dakkhani, indeed, it can be baataaN.

 

[desi4life]

It is indeed nasalised in Dakkhani Urdu (as spoken in Bengaluru-Hyderabad area of India), but it is a dental consonant in both Hindi as well as Lakhnavi-Delhi Urdu. And in Dakkhani, indeed, it can be baataaN.

It is “baatoN” in standard Hindi and standard Lakhnavi-Delhi Urdu, and “baataaN” in Dakkhani; both words have a nasalized vowel. The dental consonant (baatan and baataan) is present in Hindi Belt dialects.

 

[littlepond]

It is “baatoN” in standard Hindi and standard Lakhnavi-Delhi Urdu, and “baataaN” in Dakkhani; both words have a nasalized vowel. The dental consonant (baatan and baataan) is present in Hindi Belt dialects.

I did not mean standard Hindi, in which of course it is "baateN" or "baatoN." I meant spoken Hindi in various parts of north India, in which I personally have only encountered "baatan" (and not "baataan"). And yes, as I myself said earlier, it is "baataaN" in dakkhani.