Hindi, Urdu: mere xayaal se - mere xayaal mein

frutsnacc

New Member
English - American
Hello!

I am wondering if anyone could explain the difference between these two phrases. I hear and read both versions often, but I've noticed that native speakers will correct me to use "mere xayaal mein" instead of "se". I also haven't heard an explanation that makes sense to me. Thanks!
 
  • Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Hi @frutsnacc ...I shall try my utmost and am hopeful that you will feel it is a satisfactory explanation.

    میرے خیال میں is the correct format to express, "in my opinion"/"I think". However "میرے خیال سے" does not mean "in my oinion"/"I think" but it means "of/about my thought" (i.e "thinking about me"). This can best be illustrated by an example from Urdu poetry.

    نظر بچا کر گُزر جائیں مجھ سے وہ لیکن
    میرے خیال سے دامن بچا نہیں سکتے

    نا معلوم

    S/he is avoiding eye contact with me and passes by
    But (I know) S/he can not stop thinking about me

    Unknown

    It is possible people may erraneously use میرے خیال سے when they really mean میرے خیال میں. Please get back to me if you are still unhappy. I shall make another attempt if need be.

    By the way, I believe you have forgotten to specify the language for your query, in the title. My response is from an Urdu perspective.
     
    Last edited:

    littlepond

    Senior Member
    Hindi
    For sentences of the type "mere khyaal meN/se, aisaa huaa hogaa," I don't see any difference.

    From the Hindi perspective.
     

    frutsnacc

    New Member
    English - American
    Hi @frutsnacc ...I shall try my utmost and am hopeful that you will feel it is a satisfactory explanation.

    میرے خیال میں is the correct format to express, "in my opinion"/"I think". However "میرے خیال سے" does not mean "in my oinion"/"I think" but it means "of/about my thought" (i.e "thinking about me"). This can best be illustrated by an example from Urdu poetry.

    نظر بچا کر گُزر جائیں مجھ سے وہ لیکن
    میرے خیال سے دامن بچا نہیں سکتے

    نا معلوم

    S/he is avoiding eye contact with me and passes by
    But (I know) S/he can not stop thinking about me

    Unknown

    It is possible people may erraneously use میرے خیال سے when they really mean میرے خیال میں. Please get back to me if you are still unhappy. I shall make another attempt if need be.

    By the way, I believe you have forgotten to specify the language for your query, in the title. My response is from an Urdu perspective.
    Bohot shukriya for the incredibly thorough response! I am new to the forum, so I'll specify the language in the future :)
     

    frutsnacc

    New Member
    English - American
    For sentences of the type "mere khyaal meN/se, aisaa huaa hogaa," I don't see any difference.

    From the Hindi perspective.
    Interesting, I wonder what goes into the different perspectives on how they should be used. Native speakers of Urdu and Hindi quite often correct me to use "mere xayaal mein" instead of "se".
     

    aevynn

    Senior Member
    USA
    English, Hindustani
    However "میرے خیال سے" does not mean "in my oinion"/"I think" but it means "of/about my thought" (i.e "thinking about me")... My response is from an Urdu perspective.
    While I agree that "mere xayaal se" can mean these kinds of things in the appropriate context, Rekhta still turns up ample examples of it idiomatically meaning "in my opinion" (ie, of it being synonymous with "mere xayaal meN"). In KaNwal by Azam Karevi, one has:

    lekin mere xayaal se to us xaandaan ko sazaa milnii chaahiye jis ne ek ta3liim-yaaftah qabuul-Suurat aur javaan laRkii kii shaadii ek buDDhe mard se kii.​

    In Dil Lagii by Waseem Haidar Hashmi, one has:

    mere xayaal se ye tumhaare liye bahut achchhaa rahe gaa. ek na'ii duniyaa meN qadam rakho ge to zindagii kii talxiyaaN jaatii raheN gii.​

    In Sho3le by Wajida Tabassum, one has:

    "3umr? aap kii 3umr?" nighat Hairat se boolii. "mere xayaaal se aap kisii taraH chaaliis paiNtaaliis se ziyaadah nahiiN."​
    Native speakers of Urdu and Hindi quite often correct me to use "mere xayaal mein" instead of "se".
    It could be a kind of hypercorrection, since "meN" is a more logical fit for the intended semantics...? I'm not sure. In any case, my experience is also that "mere xayaal se" is also used idiomatically with the same meaning as "mere xayaal meN" (and for me personally, "mere xayaal se" actually comes out slightly more naturally than "mere xayaal meN.")
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    While I agree that "mere xayaal se" can mean these kinds of things in the appropriate context, Rekhta still turns up ample examples of it idiomatically meaning "in my opinion" (ie, of it being synonymous with "mere xayaal meN"). In KaNwal by Azam Karevi, one has:

    lekin mere xayaal se to us xaandaan ko sazaa milnii chaahiye jis ne ek ta3liim-yaaftah qabuul-Suurat aur javaan laRkii kii shaadii ek buDDhe mard se kii.​

    In Dil Lagii by Waseem Haidar Hashmi, one has:

    mere xayaal se ye tumhaare liye bahut achchhaa rahe gaa. ek na'ii duniyaa meN qadam rakho ge to zindagii kii talxiyaaN jaatii raheN gii.​

    In Sho3le by Wajida Tabassum, one has:

    "3umr? aap kii 3umr?" nighat Hairat se boolii. "mere xayaaal se aap kisii taraH chaaliis paiNtaaliis se ziyaadah nahiiN."​

    It could be a kind of hypercorrection, since "meN" is a more logical fit for the intended semantics...? I'm not sure. In any case, my experience is also that "mere xayaal se" is also used idiomatically with the same meaning as "mere xayaal meN" (and for me personally, "mere xayaal se" actually comes out slightly more naturally than "mere xayaal meN.")
    Thank you for these examples. Not that I don't trust your quotes, it would be nice if you had given paragraph/line location etc. Anyway, I am still inclined to go along with those people who have corrected @frutsnacc and suggested "mere xayaal meN" as the correct version. I don't understand the logic behind your assertion that "mere xayaal se" comes out more naturally than "mere xayaal meN".
     

    aevynn

    Senior Member
    USA
    English, Hindustani
    Not that I don't trust your quotes, it would be nice if you had given paragraph/line location etc.
    Rather than counting paragraphs/sentences, it might be easier to just search (Ctrl+F / Cmd+F) the pages I linked to for میرے خیال سے. The phrase only shows up once in each of those short stories.

    I don't understand the logic behind your assertion that "mere xayaal se" comes out more naturally than "mere xayaal meN".
    I was really just expressing a personal observation about which of the two I was more likely to use (presumably because it's been slightly more common in the variety of the language I've been more closely exposed to). There's no "logic" behind it really. In fact, I did even admit that "mere xayaal meN" makes more sense logically than "... se" when one bears in mind the intended semantics. Nonetheless, sometimes phrases gain currency without making logical sense.

    To make an analogy... In American English, both phrases "I couldn't care less" and "I could care less" are used to mean "I don't care at all." Only the former makes logical sense, but both phrases exist, both are completely synonymous in this context, and some native speakers happen to use the latter more frequently. Some people choose to formulate prescriptions against the latter, and it's anyone's prerogative to choose to abide (or not to abide!) by those prescriptions. Nonetheless, for a learner of American English, it's probably useful to know that one will encounter both phrases with exactly the same meaning, even the "illogical" one.
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Rather than counting paragraphs/sentences, it might be easier to just search (Ctrl+F / Cmd+F) the pages I linked to for میرے خیال سے. The phrase only shows up once in each of those short stories.


    Nonetheless, for a learner of American English, it's probably useful to know that one will encounter both phrases with exactly the same meaning, even the "illogical" one.
    Thank you for the short cuts aevynn Jii. @frutsnacc is already ware of the existence of both formats in speech and writing.
     

    littlepond

    Senior Member
    Hindi
    Thank you for the short cuts aevynn Jii. @frutsnacc is already ware of the existence of both formats in speech and writing.
    Yes, but @frutsnacc was probably wondering (if I am not wrong) if he/she has been using some wrong construction, which "mere khyaal/xayaal se" is not. "Logic" never dictates language, which is what gives beautiful quirks to a language.

    To quote from a book: "in case of conflict, it is the speakers of the language who decide."
    patanjali.jpg
     

    littlepond

    Senior Member
    Hindi
    (and for me personally, "mere xayaal se" actually comes out slightly more naturally than "mere xayaal meN.")
    For me, too, "mere khyaal se" comes out more naturally and frequently than "mere khyaal meN." The reason, of course, may be that I hear the former much more frequently from various people.
     

    frutsnacc

    New Member
    English - American
    While I agree that "mere xayaal se" can mean these kinds of things in the appropriate context, Rekhta still turns up ample examples of it idiomatically meaning "in my opinion" (ie, of it being synonymous with "mere xayaal meN"). In KaNwal by Azam Karevi, one has:

    lekin mere xayaal se to us xaandaan ko sazaa milnii chaahiye jis ne ek ta3liim-yaaftah qabuul-Suurat aur javaan laRkii kii shaadii ek buDDhe mard se kii.​

    In Dil Lagii by Waseem Haidar Hashmi, one has:

    mere xayaal se ye tumhaare liye bahut achchhaa rahe gaa. ek na'ii duniyaa meN qadam rakho ge to zindagii kii talxiyaaN jaatii raheN gii.​

    In Sho3le by Wajida Tabassum, one has:

    "3umr? aap kii 3umr?" nighat Hairat se boolii. "mere xayaaal se aap kisii taraH chaaliis paiNtaaliis se ziyaadah nahiiN."​

    It could be a kind of hypercorrection, since "meN" is a more logical fit for the intended semantics...? I'm not sure. In any case, my experience is also that "mere xayaal se" is also used idiomatically with the same meaning as "mere xayaal meN" (and for me personally, "mere xayaal se" actually comes out slightly more naturally than "mere xayaal meN.")
    These examples are really interesting, and I would have never thought to search in Rekhta to find popular usage. Useful tool for the future! The language of fiction and poetry often loosely follows standard language usage, so I’m also wondering if the genres are helping these examples sound so apt.
     
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