Hindi, Urdu: Nam-o-nishaan

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bargolus

Member
Danish and English - British
What does the word naam-o-nishaan / नामोनिशान / نام-و-نشان mean?

I have a Hindi-speaking friend from Odisha who uses it a lot, but he has difficulty explaining to me how it is used.

From what I gather, it is generally used in a periphrastic way to mean "nothing" with an additional emphasis, for example:

us gav mein koi naam-o-nishaan nehin tha - there was absolutely nothing in that village

But it would be good to confirm with others?
 
  • Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    naam means name and nishaan can be translated into many words such as mark/trace/sign/badge/emblem etc etc

    naam-o-nishaan

    The "o" between the two words means "and".

    This construction comes from Persian into Urdu and depending on the context, it could mean " Name and address or particulars"; — "sign, mark, trace, vestige".

    us jagah par paanii kaa naam-o-nishaan nahiiN thaa.

    In that place there was not a trace of water.

    The sentence you have quoted is missing the object whose existence is being negated.
     

    bargolus

    Member
    Danish and English - British
    Ookay that makes sense. Can it be used in a metaphorical sense as in:

    COVID-19 ke dauraan naukari kaa naam-o-nishaan nehiin tha

    To mean very roughly

    Jobs were practically non-existent during COVID-19

    or maybe

    During COVID-19, there was no sign of a job (on the horizon)

    ?
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Ookay that makes sense. Can it be used in a metaphorical sense as in:

    COVID-19 ke dauraan naukari kaa naam-o-nishaan nehiin tha

    To mean very roughly

    Jobs were practically non-existent during COVID-19

    or maybe

    COVID-19, there was no sign of a job on the horizon

    ?
    Well, it seems rather a drastic way to say there was no sign of jobs due to Covid - 19. I would not use "naam-o-nishaan" here. There are other perfectly good Urdu words that would fit your context.

    Covid - 19 ke dauraan mulaazimat taqriib-an naa-paid thii.

    During Covid -19, employment was next to non-existent.
     
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    littlepond

    Senior Member
    Hindi
    What does the word naam-o-nishaan / नामोनिशान / نام-و-نشان mean?
    Literally, "name and vestige": used, for example, in sentences like "us kaa naam-o-nishaan vahaaN se miT gayaa" - that, literally, would be "his name and vestige/traces got erased from there," that is, "no sign/trace of him/that was left there."

    @Qureshpor jii's suggestion in the jobs and Covid case is an excellent one, to use something like "naa-paid ho jaanaa" (gone missing). Even in English, you wouldn't say "no trace of jobs" or "no sign of jobs": that would be quite weird for something like a "job" that, in fact, can be created at will (at least, by the government). But if Covid itself vanishes, let's say, one fine day in some particular area, then you could certainly say "vahaaN kauviD kaa naam-o-nishaan nahiiN rahaa/bachaa."
     

    PersoLatin

    Senior Member
    UK
    Persian - Iran
    This might help: In Persian & in generall, this term is used in situations when a person/thing with positive/useful attributes has disappeared/died & no obvious sign of their existence is around, they should have had positive attributes in the first place.

    Having said that, infamy can also qualify, so when Covid19 is finally eradicated & we are in normal times (back to usual miseries) you can use it to stress that the ‘evil’ has disappeared, however the reason for its eradication will be the main point of the conversation.
     
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    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Literally, "name and vestige": used, for example, in sentences like "us kaa naam-o-nishaan vahaaN se miT gayaa" - that, literally, would be "his name and vestige/traces got erased from there," that is, "no sign/trace of him/that was left there."

    @Qureshpor jii's suggestion in the jobs and Covid case is an excellent one, to use something like "naa-paid ho jaanaa" (gone missing).
    Thank you, littlepond Jii, but with one qualification. At least in Urdu, "naa-paid" implies the non-existence of thing/s or person/s. I say this because this may have different connotations in Hindi. McGrgor gives the meaning as "un-born"!
     
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    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    This might help: In Persian & in generall, this term is used in situations when a person/thing with positive/useful attributes has disappeared/died & no obvious sign of their existence is around, they should have had positive attributes in the first place.

    Having said that, infamy can also qualify, so when Covid19 is finally irradiated & we are in normal times (back to usual miseries) you can use it to stress that the ‘evil’ has disappeared, however the reason for its irradiation will be the main point of the conversation.
    Thank you PersoLatin. In Urdu "naam-o-nishaan" is used in the same way as Persian with one difference, often and especially in poetry, the "n" of "nishaan" is nasalised (nuun-i-Ghunnah).
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Hindi has the same connotation, @Qureshpor jii: it is a very commonly used word. The pronunciation can be both "naa-paid" and "naa-ped."
    OK, thank you. I wonder why McGregor's "The Oxford-Hindi" dictionary gives the meaning of "naa-paid" as "unborn" (page 549) while Cahurvedi has the entry, "rare, scarce" neither of which conform with the Urdu meaning "non-existent". Also, in Urdu it does not mean "gone missing" as you have indicated in post 6.
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    Yes, ناپید is the shortened form of نا پیدا. In Urdu, it is always naa-paid ( your nâ-peyd)
     

    desi4life

    Senior Member
    English
    In Hindi “naa-paid” is used in the following meanings per Hindi Shabd Sagar:

    नापैद nāpaid

    वि० [फ़ा० ना+ पैदा]

    १. जो पैदा न होता हो । २. न मिलनेवाला । अप्राप्य ।
     

    Qureshpor

    Senior Member
    Panjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    In Hindi “naa-paid” is used in the following meanings per Hindi Shabd Sagar:

    नापैद nāpaid

    वि० [फ़ा० ना+ पैदा]

    १. जो पैदा न होता हो । २. न मिलनेवाला । अप्राप्य ।
    Thank you @desi4life. How do you understand the first meaning please?
     

    desi4life

    Senior Member
    English
    I would translate the first meaning as “that which is not born” and the second meaning as “unattainable, non-existent”.
     

    bargolus

    Member
    Danish and English - British
    This might help: In Persian & in generall, this term is used in situations when a person/thing with positive/useful attributes has disappeared/died & no obvious sign of their existence is around, they should have had positive attributes in the first place.

    Having said that, infamy can also qualify, so when Covid19 is finally eradicated & we are in normal times (back to usual miseries) you can use it to stress that the ‘evil’ has disappeared, however the reason for its eradication will be the main point of the conversation.
    Thanks that useful - do you have any examples?

    I'm trying to understand when you would say that there is no nam-o-nishaan of a thing as opposed to just saying that the thing is missing? It seems to be when something has completely disappeared with no clues it has ever existed, as opposed to a thing being temporarily or partially gone?
     

    littlepond

    Senior Member
    Hindi
    It seems to be when something has completely disappeared with no clues it has ever existed, as opposed to a thing being temporarily or partially gone?
    Yes, you've got it right (at least as far as Hindi is concerned), but do remember that when the speaker intends for the impression that "when something has completely disappeared with no clues it has ever existed." The reality may or may not be that.
     

    littlepond

    Senior Member
    Hindi
    ... when the speaker intends for the impression that "when something has completely disappeared with no clues it has ever existed." The reality may or may not be that.
    That's why it is often used in threats: e.g., "teraa naam-o-nishaan miTaa dooNgaa" (I will remove even the last vestiges of you).
     
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