Hindi/Urdu - postposition (for) shukriyaa and dhanyavaad

Discussion in 'Indo-Iranian Languages' started by tonyspeed, Mar 29, 2013.

  1. tonyspeed Senior Member

    English & Creole - Jamaica
    This has been a question in my mind for a long time. So I wanted to make a separate thread for this.

    I admit that for English speakers "ke liye" seems the right postposition to use. But has this "ke liye" usage found its way into the speech of Indians/Pakistanis?

    I feel that it has. A quick internet search for "के लिए शुक्रिया" seems to turn up a few lakh hits.

    Question 1: What is your viewpoint? Can we use "ke liye" in modern speech or should we stick to "kaa" for linking shukriyaa(shukriyah)/dhanyavaad to what one is thankful for?

    Question 2: How do we link the receiver of this thanks to the shukriyaa? Do we say "aap kaa shukriyaa(shukriyah) madad karne kaa" ?

    If we use kaa for both the receiver and what one is thankful for, does it seem confusing or redundant? "madad karne kaa aap kaa shukriyaa (shukriyah) "
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2013
  2. Chhaatr Senior Member

    1. With dhanyavaad it is "ke liye". Madad ke liye dhanyavaad. Reply ke liye dhanyavaad.

    2. Not sure about "shukriyaa" as I don't use it normally. Looking at marrish's post the sentence would perhaps be "aapkii madad kaa shukriyaa"
  3. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    ^Yes, the sentence would be as you have written it.

    I believe I wrote the above quoted post impulsively, without having given it a deeper thought. Although I do prefer ''kaa shukriyah'' over ''ke liye shukriyah'', simply because I've been using it like this, still for the sake of completeness, let me say that ''ke liye shukriyah'' is also there and I wouldn't say it is incorrect. I don't know whether it came about under English influence or not, this is a point to be researched, but my gut feeling says ''kaa shukriyah'' would be deemed more idiomatic in this context.
  4. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    marrish SaaHib, aap kaa bahut bahut shukriyah!

    kis baat kaa bhaa'ii? kuchh bataa'iye bhii to!

    us gaane ke liye maiN aap kaa shukriyah adaa kar rahaa huuN.

    kaun-saa gaanaa? mujhe to kuchh yaad nahiiN!

    vahii janaab, jis kii mujhe ek 3arse se talaash thii. tal3at (Talat) Mahmood ke xuubsuurat Urdu gaane ke liye..shkriyah! ai pyaar teraa shukriyah!
  5. greatbear Banned

    India - Hindi & English
    "ke liye shukriyaa" is perfectly fine, and in fact that's what I say (though like Chhatr, I use "shukriyaa" rarely): kisii kaa shukriyaa adaa karnaa kisii baat ke liye. Same situation for dhanyvaad: kisii kaa dhanyvaad karnaa koii baat ke liye.
  6. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    Perhaps ke liye is fine but kaa is also used, in fact Platts' dictionary is quite clear on this point:

    dhanya-vād karnā (-kā), To express thankfulness or thanks (for); to give praise, to applaud (for).
  7. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    I think it would be good to have other friends' views on this. There is no problem with "kaa" as in "aap kaa bahut bahut shukriyaa". But then if you say "kaahe kaa?" and I join the object of my gratitude (person) with the reason for my gratitude, this is when it becomes "tricky".

    us gaane kaa aap kaa bahut bahut shukriyah..or

    us gaane ke liye aap kaa bahut bahut shukriyah.
  8. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    I am also expecting all of the participants to share their views and observations on this so very basic yet amazingly puzzling topic. Whether you use/prefer/hear dhanyavaad or shukriyah/shukriyaa, please join us, the more the merrier!
  9. Chhaatr Senior Member

    Whenever I've used shukriyaa it has always been with "ke liye". I don't know whether this is right or wrong. In fact, I wasn't even aware of the usage as described by marrish saahib. I have certainly learnt something new.
  10. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    Thank you, Chhaatr SaaHib, for your kind comments. Actually I come to realize that the situation is quite interesting. I have conducted some net searches that indicate something I hadn't expected, but about it later. In the meanwhile, until we get more responses, let me tell you that Bahri's Hindi-English dictionary has ''ke liye dhanyavaad'' and the number of hits for it is overwhemlingly greater than ''kaa dhanyavaad'' for what one is thankful for.
  11. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    A couple of examples from the net.

    unhoN ne zaa'iriin kii rihaa'ii ke liye sarf kii jaane vaalii koshishoN par Hukuumat-i-libnaan aur turkii kaa shukriyah adaa kiyaa.

    He thanked Lebanon and Turkey's governments in lieu of attempts made for the release of visitors.

    aaj aqvaam-i-muttaHidah ne 21.2 milyan yoro kii us imdaad ke liye yoropiin yuuniyan kaa shukriyah adaa kiyaa.

    Today the United nations
    thanked the European Union for the 21.2 million Euro aid.
  12. tonyspeed Senior Member

    English & Creole - Jamaica
    I first became aware of it from watching Satyamev Jayate. Aamir Khan invariably says "shukriyaa yahaaN aane kaa" etc.
  13. nineth Senior Member

    Hindi, Telugu
    Same here. I don't use shukriyaa that much, but when I do, I say "... ke liye shukriyaa". It's probably because I'd always use "... ke liye dhanyavaad" for "Thanks for ...", and shukriyaa and dhanyavaad are interchangeable in my mind.
  14. Chhaatr Senior Member

    TS jii IMHO in this context I would say 99 out of 100 people would say it this way. Only a few would say "aane ke liye shukriyaa".
  15. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    ^ I think it would be safe to conclude that the object of one's gratitude/shukriyah has "kaa" and the purpose/reason for the shukriyah has "ke liye" as postpositions.
  16. greatbear Banned

    India - Hindi & English
    Chhatr, according to marrish (see post 7) in this thread, you would prefer "fast reply kaa shukriyaa" over "fast reply ke liye shukriyaa"; is that right? Just to confirm, because from all your preceding posts, I got a completely different impression than what marrish has understood.
  17. marrish

    marrish Senior Member

    اُردو Urdu
    GB, as far as I am concerned, I haven't said so nor understood it this way.
  18. Chhaatr Senior Member

    GB my understanding of "shukriyaa" when I participated in this thread is given in posts 2 and 9. By the end of this discussion I am in agreement with observation made in post 15. I agree with you that my post 14 contradicts my earlier two posts and if this has led to any confusion, I do regret that.
  19. greatbear Banned

    India - Hindi & English
    It is very much probably, marrish, that you wished to say something else but ended up saying something else. Don't worry; happens all the time ;)
  20. greatbear Banned

    India - Hindi & English
    Thanks, Chhatr; I wasn't confused till marrish's post in another thread quoting you. Thank you for the trouble to (re-)clarify.
  21. Qureshpor Senior Member

    Punjabi, Urdu پنجابی، اردو
    A few observations.

    a) I don't believe there is any difference in usage between shukriyah and dhanyavaad so far as postpositions are concerned.

    b) Looking at the examples being put forward in this thread, it does appear that the usual postposition for the object of one's gratitude is "kaa" and the purpose for it is "ke liye". This, I don't think is set in stone. One could use "kaa" in both places but as TS has indicated, this looks/sounds awkward.

    c) When the object of one's gratitude is not mentioned, the purpose can be indicated with "kaa" or "ke liye" and there does n't seem much in it between the two. Either or will do. Examples from the posts are:

    fast reply ke liye shukriyah (aap kaa being understood)

    yahaaN aane kaa shukriyah (aap kaa being understood)

    d) Other friends may disagree but I don't think one needs to lose sleep over whether to use "kaa" or "ke liye" for purpose.

    e) I hope all friends will agree that for the object of one's gratitude, it is always "kaa"
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2013

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