Hindi, Urdu: -wala

rusita preciosa

rusita preciosa

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Not sure this question belongs in this forum...

In Slumdog Millionaire the game host calls the protagonist "chai-walla" beacuse he serves tea at an office. I think I saw this word elswhere, in a book where "cigarette-walla" was the owner of a small kiosk selling magazines, cigarettes and sweets.

- Is -walla a derogatory word (or suffix)?
- does it mean something like "merchant" or servant?
 
    • No, it isn't derogatory per se, though one could use it in some context that way!

    <-waalaa> = seller / vendor, but also possessor of certain sorts.

    So, if one is using it as a statement of fact then it should not be treated as something derogatory.

    In common language (both Hindi and Urdu) we refer to a rich person payse / paise waalaa - the latter literally with a lot of / possessor of paysah / paisah = money. Same as <maaldaar> where the suffix <daar (Persian)> means the same as this specific usage of <waalaa> = possessor.
     
    Hello!
    I agree with Faylasoof. It is not necessarily a derogatory term and its meaning depends on the context. It is a very useful word for distinguishing between items, especially if you have limited vocabulary. For inanimate objects, I would translate it as being equivalent to the English "one", in the sense of "the green one" or "the big one". So say for example if you ask for a paratha (fried flat bread), and in reply they ask "kaunsa chahiye?" you could simply say "ghee wala", or "meetha wala", (the butter one, or the sweet one, Or the Butter kind, or the sweet kind).

    Hope that helps! It's a great word to know, and the more you hear it, the more you'll understand its utility and diversity :)
     
    Very good examples Lozenger60 "wala" can help you everywhere.
    yah vaalaa- this one
    vo vaalaa- that one
    dil vaalaa- magnanimous
    himmat vaalaa- courageous
    pahale vaalaa- the one before
    kal vaalaa- yesterday's one
    With colours neelaa vaalaa- the one that is blue, peelaa vaalaa- the one that is yellow and so on.
     
    Thanks Bakshink! That's exactly what I was getting at! It's an endlessly useful word, especially if you're still learning, and you're having trouble explaining yourself ;)
     
    In the examples above <waalaa> again is used to mean <having / possessing / pertaining to / concerning>.

    This <waalaa> should not be confused with the one that you see in <janaab-e-waalaa>
    - here it means <exalted / eminent / lofty / high / highness.
     
    Isn't it janab e aali? جناب عالی

    It means something like "his excellency" and is of Persian origin

    http://urduseek.com/dictionary/excellency?nolog=1

    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/جناب_عالی

    I can't find any independent definition for waala in this context. From what I can understand, in common use, this has at times warped from janab e aala... or janab e waala, through pronunciation.

    the "aali" (عالی) in janab e aali, comes from the arabic (عالی) - pronounced "aala" - (since the ی in arabic is pronounced "aa" and in persian it's pronounced "i" - this explains the two different pronunciations) the meaning of which is "exalted"

    http://en.wiktionary.org/عالی
     
    That too! Let me explain.

    3aalii (عالی) -Arabic = waalaa (والا) - Persian. We use both.

    From Platts.
    P والا wālā     वाला [i.q. bālā; & prob. akin to Zend upairi, or upara; S. उपरि or उपर], adj. Exalted, eminent, respectable, high, superior, &c.:—wālā-jāh, or wālā-shān, adj. Of elevated rank or dignity:—wālā-qadr, adj. Of high worth or excellence; of high dignity:—ḥuẓūr-ě-wālā, Your Highness.

    [P = Persian]

     Apart from the above examples we also use it in other compound nouns:

    <janaab saami3iin-e-waalaa جَناب سامعینِ والا= esteemed listeners / audience>
    <janaab naaZiriin-e-waalaa جَناب ناظِرینِ والا= esteemed spectators>.

    - both of the above can also be used without <janaab جَناب >, i.e. saami3iin-e-waalaa سامعینِ والا and naaZiriin-e-waalaa ناظِرینِ والا. All of these forms are high register Urdu but the addition of <janaab جَناب > gives added formality and politeness.


    والا waalaa / wālā वाला is also used when something is about to happen and also in describing a profession:

    <woh kitaab paRhne waalaa hai>

    He is about to / going to read the book

    [Depending on the context, this could also refer to someone who serves as a “reader” (kitaab paRhne waalaa) on a regular basis].

    <woh kaam shuroo3 karne waalaa hai>

    He is about to / going to start working

    Similarly, expressing an action that is about to take place in general:

    <yeh hone waalaa hai>

    This is about to / going to happen.

     <yeh to hone hii waalaa hai>

     This is bound to happen

    Used in a compound noun to describe a category or a profession:

    <kaam karne waalaa / waale = employee / employees OR worker / workers.>

    <bijlii kaa kaam karne waalaa = an electrician = maahir-e- / kaariigar-e-aalaat-e-barq
    ماہر \ کاریگر آلات برق.>

     
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    Split from here.

    Jabir said:
    Thank you very much, marrish SaaHib. What does "waale" means in your last sentence?
    Click to expand...

    To help marrish SaaHib with some of your load..!:)

    vaalaa/feminine vaalii (masculine plural vaale) = The one who is associated with something.

    Few examples from C.M.Naim's Urdu Grammar.

    ghar-vaalaa = head of the household/husband
    ghar-vaalii se = with the mistress of the house or the wife
    baaje-vaale ko = to the person with the musical instrument

    jaane-vaaloN ko = those who are going
    pakaane-vaaloN ke = of those who cook

    Examples of coloquial usage "generally not found in standard texts".

    achchhii-vaalii kitaab = the good book
    baazaar-vaalaa khaanaa = the food brought from the market
    aane vaaloN ne kahaa = Those who came, said.
    jaane vaale chale ga'e = Those who were going have left

    gaaRii jaane-vaalii hai = The train is about to leave
     
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    Jabir said:
    Thank you very much, marrish SaaHib. What does "waale" means in your last sentence?
    Click to expand...

    Although used in many ways, waalaa as used in that way to mean can be translated as "one".

    vah waalaa - that one
    yah waalaa - this one
    baDaa waalaa - big one
    laal waalaa - red one
    meraa waalaa - "my one"? or I guess more correctly "my own"
     
    tonyspeed said:
    Although used in many ways, waalaa as used in that way to mean can be translated as "one".

    vah waalaa - that one
    yah waalaa - this one
    baDaa waalaa - big one
    laal waalaa - red one
    meraa waalaa - "my one"? or I guess more correctly "my own"
    Click to expand...
    Yes, Urdu knows it, with the exception that we say voh/vuh waalaa, yeh/yih waalaa, baRaa waalaa respectively. For meeraa waalaa I'd go for that one of me (to explain the meaning).
     
    BelligerentPacifist said:
    The khudaawand thread reminded me that this one could possibly also be translated rabb ul manzil. That's as majestic as it gets in a household context!
    Click to expand...
    Very nice - I'm sure I'd use it one day, but ghar-vaalaa itself means a husband of course. Other heads of the household there might be than a mere husband, it is mostly the xaatuun-e xaanah!
     
    In a post belonging to "Representation of English present and past participle" Alfaaz SaaHib has hinted at the verb + vaalaa (karne vaalaa/hone vaalaa/khele jaane vaale etc) construction having a past meaning. The reality is that it has past, present and future significance depending on the context.

    Present Perfect

    marne vaale marte haiN, fanaa hote nahiiN
    vuh Haqiiqat meN kabhii ham se judaa hote nahiiN

    Iqbal

    (Those who have died..)

    Past

    ek tum hii nah mil sake varnah
    milne vaale bichhaR bichhaR ke mile

    Nasir Kazimi

    (Those who met..)

    Present

    kyaa aap dil meN samaa jaane vaale ko'ii ash3aar hameN sunaa sakte haiN?

    (Can you tell us any couplets that make their home in our hearts?)

    Future

    ab ham bhii jaane vaale haiN, saamaaN to gayaa

    DaaGh

    (Now we too are about to depart, our belongings have already gone!)
     
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    QURESHPOR said:
    In a post belonging to "Representation of English present and past participle" Alfaaz SaaHib has hinted at the verb + vaalaa (karne vaalaa/hone vaalaa/khele jaane vaale etc) construction having a past meaning. The reality is that it has past, present and future significance depending on the context.
    Click to expand...
    (In that specific case--comparing Hind and Urdu usage, media, and providing a possible explanation for why certain media/speakers might lean towards khela jaa raha instead of khele jaane vaala)
    Agree (except might disagree with some of the English translations...will ask later if time permits)
     
    QURESHPOR said:
    In a post belonging to "Representation of English present and past participle" Alfaaz SaaHib has hinted at the verb + vaalaa (karne vaalaa/hone vaalaa/khele jaane vaale etc) construction having a past meaning. The reality is that it has past, present and future significance depending on the context.

    Present Perfect

    marne vaale marte haiN, fanaa hote nahiiN
    vuh Haqiiqat meN kabhii ham se judaa hote nahiiN

    Iqbal

    (Those who have died..)

    Past

    ek tum hii nah mil sake varnah
    milne vaale bichhaR bichhaR ke mile

    Nasir Kazimi

    (Those who met..)

    Present

    kyaa aap dil meN samaa jaane vaale ko'ii ash3aar hameN sunaa sakte haiN?

    (Can you tell us any couplets that make their home in our hearts?)

    Future

    ab ham bhii jaane vaale haiN, saamaaN to gayaa

    DaaGh

    (Now we too are about to depart, our belongings have already gone!)
    Click to expand...

    According to me, you are confusing a lot with lot! In all your examples except the future tense one, "vaala" is adjectival and doesn't in itself carry a temporal sense.
     
    greatbear said:
    According to me, you are confusing a lot with lot! In all your examples except the future tense one, "vaala" is adjectival and doesn't in itself carry a temporal sense.
    Click to expand...
    The topic is very interesting because "vaalaa" is used so often and seems very polyvalent but I've to confess that I don't understand how "vaalaa" in the instances above should be adjectival. Could you perhaps offer a translation of these forms so that the adjectival meaning is expressed?
     
    زہریلی شراب پینے کے نتیجے میں ہلاک ہونے والوں کی تعداد چالیس ہوگئی ہے۔
    zahriilii sharaab piine ke natiije meN marne vaaloN kii ta3daad chaaliis ho ga'ii.

    The number of those who have died as a consequence of drinking poisonous alcohol has reached forty. ​
     
    QURESHPOR said:
    زہریلی شراب پینے کے نتیجے میں ہلاک ہونے والوں کی تعداد چالیس ہوگئی ہے۔
    zahriilii sharaab piine ke natiije meN marne vaaloN kii ta3daad chaaliis ho ga'ii.

    The number of those who have died as a consequence of drinking poisonous alcohol has reached forty. ​
    Click to expand...
    QP SaaHib there's discrepancy between the Urdu text and the transliteration.
     
    To Qureshpor SaaHib (or anyone who can answer on his behalf):

    You said:
    The reality is that it has past, present and future significance depending on the context.
    Click to expand...

    But how do we know what the intended tense of "waalaa" is if no more context is given? as in these two examples you quoted:
    jaane-vaaloN ko = those who are going
    pakaane-vaaloN ke = of those who cook
    Click to expand...

    =================================================

    From Faylasoof SaaHib's post:
    Used in a compound noun to describe a category or a profession:
    <kaam karne waalaa / waale = employee / employees OR worker / workers.>
    Click to expand...
    Does حکومت کرنے والا in the following sentence mean "ruler"?
    آل طاہر (فارسی: سلسله طاهریان) 821ء سے 873ء تک شمال مشرقی ایرانی علاقے خراسان پر حکومت کرنے والا ایک خاندان تھا جس کی حکومت میں موجودہ ایران، افغانستان، تاجکستان،ترکمانستان اور ازبکستان کے علاقے شامل تھے
    Click to expand...

    Just want to make sure I have got it right.

    Finally, I have noticed that some of you write "waalaa" and some others write "vaalaa". So, are there two pronunciations for this word? if yes, then which one is the most common one in Urdu?
     
    jaane-vaaloN ko = those who are going
    pakaane-vaaloN ke = of those who cook

    Yes, on a stand alone basis one could impart such meanings as..

    The "goers", the ones who go, the ones going, the ones who have gone, the ones who went, the ones who will go..

    But how often are you going to come across a "stand alone" scenario. The examples that I quoted and their translations (which you have quoted) are directly from Professor Na'im's book.

    Hukuumat karne vaalaa does mean "ruler". But in the sentence quoted it is acting as an adjective...therefore "a ruling family".

    Urdu "vaa'o" is neither the English "v" (as in victory) nor the English "w" as in "water". It is something in between. I write using a v. Others use a w. It's juist personal taste.


     
    Thanks a lot. It turns out there is only one "vaa'o"!! I always thought there are two. In Devanagari it is represented by only this letter "
    व" as a consonant right?​
     
    ^ Yes, it is a consonant. [I shall reply to your PM when I have some spare time].
     
    Stranger_ said:
    Could someone translate "jaane valii zaban" in this sentence?

    from UrduLughat
    Click to expand...
    It is not "jaane vaalii zabaan" but "bolii (aur samjhii) jaane vaale zabaan". The language spoken (and understood).

    kushtan > kushtah shudan

    zan-i-kushandah = The killing/killer woman (The woman who is a killer) = maarne vaalii 3aurat

    zan-i-kushtah shavandah = The killed woman (The woman who is killed) = maarii jaane vaalii 3aurat

    bolnaa (active) > bolaa jaanaa (passive) = to be spoken

    samajhnaa (active) > samjaa jaanaa (passive) = to be understood

    Someone
     
    Thanks a lot Mr Someone, you can always be relied on for help. :)

    This is the first time I am seeing the usage of "valaa" in the passive voice. Good that you explained it, otherwise I would have assumed it to mean "a progressing/moving language = zabaan-i ravaan, yaa zabaan-i ravandah(رونده)!"
     
    Stranger_ said:
    Thanks a lot Mr Someone, you can always be relied on for help. :)

    This is the first time I am seeing the usage of "valaa" in the passive voice. Good that you explained it, otherwise I would have assumed it to mean "a progressing/moving language = zabaan-i ravaan, yaa zabaan-i ravandah(رونده)!"
    Click to expand...
    An example from the net.

    احمد فراز کی لال مسجد پر لکھی جانے والی نظم

    Ahmad Faraz's nazm written on the subject of the Red Mosque

    zabaan-i-ravaaN would mean "flowing/fluent language" in Urdu.

    ravaaN saal = current year
     
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