How close is the Roman dialect of Italy to Latin

symposium

Senior Member
Italian - Italy
Well, in some parts of Italy they use "passato remoto" and in other parts they don't. Where I was born and grew up, in the North East, no one ever ever uses it: we are taught to use it at school when talking about historical facts, but it's not used in casual, everyday conversation. We are aware, though (everybody is), that in other parts of Italy people normally use it in everyday conversation.
 
  • jazyk

    Senior Member
    Brazílie, portugalština
    What do the last posts have to do with "How close is the Roman dialect of Italy to Latin?"
     

    Ben Jamin

    Senior Member
    Polish
    The term "Gothic" for this style of architecture was coined by the Roman clergy and that should tell us why.

    Besides, there are some very nice Gothic churches in Rome.
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...a_Maria_sopra_Minerva_(Rome)_-_Inside_HDR.jpg

    The term "Gothic" for this style of architecture was coined by the Roman clergy and that should tell us why.

    Besides, there are some very nice Gothic churches in Rome.
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...a_Maria_sopra_Minerva_(Rome)_-_Inside_HDR.jpg
    Well, I should have used "almost none". According to Wikipedia "... the Minerva is the only extant example of original Gothic architecture church building in Rome." It seems that if there were more of them, the churches must have been relatively small and insignificant.
    See here for Romes's population graph over history Graph of the Population of Rome Through History
     

    berndf

    Moderator
    German (Germany)
    Well, I should have used "almost none". According to Wikipedia "... the Minerva is the only extant example of original Gothic architecture church building in Rome." It seems that if there were more of them, the churches must have been relatively small and insignificant.
    See here for Romes's population graph over history Graph of the Population of Rome Through History
    Well, that was a side note. The main thing remains:
    The term "Gothic" for this style of architecture was coined by the Roman clergy and that should tell us why.
     

    Ben Jamin

    Senior Member
    Polish
    Well, that was a side note. The main thing remains:
    I thought that the main question was why Roman dialect did not become the standard language in Italy, and the hypothese that small population size and low economical importance of the town played significant roles in the development.
     

    berndf

    Moderator
    German (Germany)
    I thought that the main question was why Roman dialect did not become the standard language in Italy, and the hypothese that small population size and low economical importance of the town played significant roles in the development.
    I agree that the north was culturally and economically leading but the fact that there are so few Gothic churches in Rome has other reasons. The use of the extremely derogatory term "Gothic" for the stye is telling enough.
     

    Şafak

    Senior Member
    The thread is too long to read all the replies. I’m sorry.

    Some time ago, I read in one book that the closest dialect to Latin was the Sardinian dialect. Can you confirm this?
     

    merquiades

    Senior Member
    English (USA Northeast)
    You are right, except Sardinian was a full-fledged Romance language in its own right and the closest one to Latin. So it's not a dialect of Italian as Romanesco and Florentine are.
     

    Penyafort

    Senior Member
    Catalan (Catalonia), Spanish (Spain)
    You are right, except Sardinian was a full-fledged Romance language in its own right and the closest one to Latin. So it's not a dialect of Italian as Romanesco and Florentine are.

    Do you consider the Umbro-Lazian cluster to be constitutive of Italian alongside Tuscan?
     

    merquiades

    Senior Member
    English (USA Northeast)
    Do you consider the Umbro-Lazian cluster to be constitutive of Italian alongside Tuscan?
    I don't know what the original regional "language(s)" were like, but at least in the contemporary version they are very understandable in their oral and written forms. You can get the hang of Romanesco in the same way you can get used to Andalusian Spanish. Endings are often lost, like the infinitive forms -re of infinitives and words are truncated in some way or another. Also l often becomes r, and Italian grammar rules are often broken, like which article to use and the noi forms are -amo, -emo, -imo rather than -iamo. It's accessible to Italians, and I get it only having learned the purest Italian. Actually the Florentine dialect of Tuscan that replaces /k/ with /x/, /p/ as /f/, /t/ as /θ/ seems harder to follow for me.
    This is different from the case of Calabrese, Pugliese, Bolognese or Venetian which I have read and listened to but cannot decipher at all and the pure southern "language(s)" sound like Portuguese to my ears.
    At the current time regional Italian is expanding and ever more entwined with the regional languages, so original dialects of Central Italy may have modified.
     
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