How did you get the mud on your coat?

VicNicSor

Banned
Russian
It is not necessary to postulate that the expression [5] presupposes some unspoken preamble such as [5a] but, rather, such as [5b]:
the mud on your coat [5]
There's some mud on your coat. [5a]
You know there's mud on your coat. [5b]
Contrast [6] with [6a]:
How did you get the mud on your coat? [6]
Did you know you have [mud /the mud] on your coat? [6a]
("A comprehensive grammar of the English language")

As I understand, the mud in [6] means particular mud, the mud on my coat.
But would it be also correct to say "How did you get ∅ mud on your coat?" ? "Mud" in general, I mean, like in [5a] or [5b].
Thank you.

(by the way, Did you know you have mud on your coat? seems strange to me.. I'd expect 'had')
 
  • Parla

    Member Emeritus
    English - US
    But would it be also correct to say "How did you get ∅ mud on your coat?" ? "Mud" in general, I mean . . .
    Yes, and just as common.

    Did you know you have mud on your coat? seems strange to me. I'd expect 'had'.
    It sounds okay to me, as would "had". And so would "Do you know . . . have . . .".
    All of these variations are common, at least in AE.
     

    Cypherpunk

    Senior Member
    US, English
    It would also be correct to say both 'there's some mud on your coat' and 'there's mud on your coat'. 'You had mud on your coat' is past tense, and it would suggest that you have cleaned your coat or that you are wearing a different coat (or no coat). If the person has mud on his or her coat right now, then the verb should be present tense (is or has).
     

    Myridon

    Senior Member
    English - US
    As I understand, the mud in [6] means particular mud, the mud on my coat.
    But would it be also correct to say "How did you get ∅ mud on your coat?" ? "Mud" in general, I mean, like in [5a] or [5b].
    Thank you.

    (by the way, Did you know you have mud on your coat? seems strange to me.. I'd expect 'had')
    Not necessarily. "The mud" could be any mud that is already in context. There's some blue mud in alley that looks like that stuff on your coat. How did you get the mud (the mud from the alley) on your coat?

    Did you know you have mud on your coat? The mud is on your coat now. Did you know about the mud before I mentioned it? (I think it's possible that you already know about the mud.)
    Do you know you have mud on your coat? The mud is on your coat now. Do you know about the mud right now? (I think I'm telling you something you don't know.)
    Did you know you had mud on your coat? There is no longer mud on your coat but I think you might not have ever noticed it even though someone has removed it.
     

    Cypherpunk

    Senior Member
    US, English
    Bennymix is right, but this is also a series of ongoing questions from VikNikSor. Please identify your source in every thread, because someone searching the discussion boards will only find them one at a time, not as a series of posts.
    Thank you.
     

    VicNicSor

    Banned
    Russian
    Thank you all for the answers, I see "the-issue", and have a question about "did you know" (sorry for a double question):
    Did you know you have mud on your coat? The mud is on your coat now. Did you know about the mud before I mentioned it? (I think it's possible that you already know about the mud.)
    Would this also work ?:
    Have you known you have mud on your coat? The mud is on your coat now. Have you known about the mud before I'm telling you about it right now?

    To bennymix and Cypherpunk.
    I usually put some copied text, then just below I put a source (in every thread), then do some spacing, and then write my thoughts. I've thought there shouldn't have been an ambiguity in this case. But if it really is, I will mark quotations clearer, then
     
    Last edited:

    Myridon

    Senior Member
    English - US
    Would this also work ?:
    Have you known you have mud on your coat? The mud is on your coat now. Have you known about the mud before I'm telling you about it right now?
    Not really. It implies that you have forgotten (you have known but don't know now) and I am asking you if you remember that you used to know, but how could you possibly know that you have forgotten something if you don't remember it. (I remember having a very long conversation with someone here trying to explain this concept.)
     

    VicNicSor

    Banned
    Russian
    Not really. It implies that you have forgotten (you have known but don't know now) and I am asking you if you remember that you used to know, but how could you possibly know that you have forgotten something if you don't remember it. (I remember having a very long conversation with someone here trying to explain this concept.)
    Not very long, actually,:D but yes, I've looked at it now, and I get it; but a couple of new questions has arisen, so maybe I'll start a thread or develop that thread.
    Thank you.
     
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