how do you pause when reading be assumed as

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vinci61

Senior Member
Chinese
Here is the sentence
Joy in living can never be assumed as a pose or put on from the outside as a mask.

I would read it in this way. I will use slash to indicate posing.
Joy in living / can never be assumed / as a pose /or put on /from the outside /as a mask

But I was told the pause after assumed is wrong. My source is all Chinese. http://wenku.baidu.com/view/80193b9b...f.html?re=view
And I didn't get the reason why.What do you think? Where to pause in this sentence?

Thank you.:)
 
  • Hi. With the understanding that any speaker could potentially pause anywhere if they were nervous or lost their train of thought, and assuming we are speaking about pauses with no need for special emphasis, I would hesitate to call a pause "wrong" but can understand why someone may have cautioned against a pause after assumed. As marked right now, I would say we've already got way too many pauses--all possible and natural, though-- but a break after assumed sounds jarring.

    Someone not wanting to emphasize the title might simply say, "Joy of Living can never be assumed as a pose/or put on the outside as a mask." Since in my opinion a phrase like "can never be assumed as a (noun)" would be for a native speaker a set phrase routinely and easily uttered in one whole togetherness of sound, a sudden breakage after "assumed" without immediately moving to the noun pose would be highly unexpected and sound broken and shattered as some kind of breathing problem, because pauses and written commas are really attempting to show standard breathing patterns of native speakers. For right now I'm deliberately avoiding grammar and sticking to breath patterns.
     
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    entangledbank

    Senior Member
    English - South-East England
    I agree that 'assumed as a pose' belongs together as one intonation phrase. Possibly the reason is that 'as a pose' is integral to the meaning. You can't say 'Joy in living can never be assumed' with that meaning. (If you say that, it means "You can never assume that you will have joy in living".) So 'assume as' needs to be together, to show its distinct meaning - just as 'put on' does, because they go together. Compare: We're eating our meal / on the table. I put the book down / on the table. Place and time phrases are usually adjuncts; they can be separated off as less important, both grammatically and intonationally. But 'assume as', 'put on' in your sentence belong together.
     

    Whirl

    Member
    English - US
    Joy in living / can never be assumed / as a pose /or put on /from the outside /as a mask.

    is much too fractured to make sense to the audience.

    Joy in living can never be assumed
    as a pose //or put on from the outside /as a mask.

    Means one thing while:

    Joy in living can never be assumed / as a pose /or put on from the outside /as a mask.

    Can mean quite an other. It would help if there were punctuation to clarify.
    No matter what, the first pause ruins the sentence.
     

    entangledbank

    Senior Member
    English - South-East England
    In general, you have some choice about how many intonation phrases (IP) to make. But it is always a matter (I think) of breaking one possible IP down into two. At a minimum, you need an IP boundary (a 'pause' though it is probably a matter of changing the intonation rather than actually pausing) before 'or':

    Joy in living can never be assumed as a pose / or put on from the outside as a mask.

    If you were going to write one comma, it would go here. A relatively long subject can be set off as its own IP:

    Joy in living / can never be assumed as a pose / or put on from the outside as a mask.

    'Put on from the outside' can stand on its own, giving enough meaning to be understood, so 'as a mask' can be treated as an inessential phrase, an adjunct, and set off accordingly:

    Joy in living / can never be assumed as a pose / or put on from the outside / as a mask.

    This is probably the most you would make in normal reading, though '/ from the outside' could be added in slower reading.
     

    Biffo

    Senior Member
    English - England
    To make it even more obvious you could divide as as follows:

    Joy in living can never be assumed or put on from the outside.

    Joy in living can never be assumed (as a pose) or put on from the outside (as a mask).
     
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    vinci61

    Senior Member
    Chinese
    Thank you guys very much.
    I almost can learn new knowlege from each your post!:)
    Mr. Dale Texas provided some general ideas to pause.
    Mr. Entanglebank told me I have to pause on Place and time phrase. That's really helpful.
    Mr. Whirl asked me to pause before or which is a conjuction.
    And then Mr. Entanglebank added something about intonation phrase as a boundary, I think I will yahoo that idea. Google is blocked because they are not working out with Chinese government. Yahoo is fine. When it comes to English, no use to search in Baidu.
    And then Mr. or Ms. Biffo, I am sorry that I don't know your gender. Maybe you are reading with your stress on? Hope I am not getting you wrong.
    At last, I differ on the opinion Mr. Ewie gives, if I may. The problem is spoken English is like flowing water if you don't add pause in. Especially for the beginners, if they can not understand and read each word well, it would be hard for they to read the whole sentence. And add pausing could be easy for them to learn. That's my humble opinion though.

    All in all hope I am not getting you guys wrong. And really really thank you guys for the trouble you took to explain things to me. Many thanks.
    :D


     
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    entangledbank

    Senior Member
    English - South-East England
    Actually we hardly ever pause or break at all during speech, it's just a constant gabblegabblegabblegabblegabblegabble. I suppose I should clarify (briefly) what an intonation phrase is: the actual division in normal speech. In English, the final IP has a falling tone on the last stressed syllable. (I'm disregarding yes-no questions, adjuncts, and semicolons - let's stick to relatively simple statements.) Non-final ones have a falling-rising tone on their last stressed syllable. Both kinds have low tone on unstressed syllables at the beginning, then high tone from there to the fall. Thus:

    \ = fall; \/ = fall-rise; _ = low; ' = beginning of high
    and therefore | = IP break, as marked by these indications.

    'Joy in living can never be assumed as a \/pose | _or 'put on from the outside as a \mask.
    Joy in \/living | _can 'never be assumed as a \/pose | _or 'put on from the outside as a \mask.
    Joy in \/living | _can 'never be assumed as a \/pose | _or 'put on from the out\/side | _as _a \mask.
     

    ewie

    Senior Member
    English English
    Actually we hardly ever pause or break at all during speech, it's just a constant gabblegabblegabblegabblegabblegabble.
    :thumbsup:

    Maybe you should try an alternative approach, Vinci: give your students short sentences to start with (His hair is black, My foot hurts ...), having them say them without pauses; when they're all comfortable with those, increase the length gradually (His hair is long and black, My foot hurts whenever I walk on it ...) etc. rather than throwing long sentences at them, finding that they all turn blue halfway through, and so introducing artificial pauses which don't serve any particular purpose other than to prevent a lot of premature deaths among students.

    Otherwise you might as well just say to them, "Here's a long sentence to read aloud ~ pause as often as you like, wherever you like".
     

    vinci61

    Senior Member
    Chinese
    Actually we hardly ever pause or break at all during speech, it's just a constant gabblegabblegabblegabblegabblegabble. I suppose I should clarify (briefly) what an intonation phrase is: the actual division in normal speech. In English, the final IP has a falling tone on the last stressed syllable. (I'm disregarding yes-no questions, adjuncts, and semicolons - let's stick to relatively simple statements.) Non-final ones have a falling-rising tone on their last stressed syllable. Both kinds have low tone on unstressed syllables at the beginning, then high tone from there to the fall. Thus:

    \ = fall; \/ = fall-rise; _ = low; ' = beginning of high
    and therefore | = IP break, as marked by these indications.

    'Joy in living can never be assumed as a \/pose | _or 'put on from the outside as a \mask.
    Joy in \/living | _can 'never be assumed as a \/pose | _or 'put on from the outside as a \mask.
    Joy in \/living | _can 'never be assumed as a \/pose | _or 'put on from the out\/side | _as _a \mask.
    Thank you very much. You are telling me to focus more on the intonation patterns:).
     

    vinci61

    Senior Member
    Chinese
    :thumbsup:

    Maybe you should try an alternative approach, Vinci: give your students short sentences to start with (His hair is black, My foot hurts ...), having them say them without pauses; when they're all comfortable with those, increase the length gradually (His hair is long and black, My foot hurts whenever I walk on it ...) etc. rather than throwing long sentences at them, finding that they all turn blue halfway through, and so introducing artificial pauses which don't serve any particular purpose other than to prevent a lot of premature deaths among students.

    Otherwise you might as well just say to them, "Here's a long sentence to read aloud ~ pause as often as you like, wherever you like".
    Ha, you are funny. OK, I will teach them pitch first.
    About pausing, I would introduce the idea of thought groups, and let them emphasize the last content word in each thought. While they are saying long sentences, I would ask them to add comma in their thought, then they will know where to pause. See, I am a good teacher, I did my homework. I quoted from http://www.elementalenglish.com/pausing-thought-groups-english-pronunciation/ And I will think over your idea of non-stopping except for change of breath.
    Then it comes to another question where to put necessary commas in a long sentence.( I will open another thread for this question, I am rule-abiding citizens.:) Or I am trying to be one.)
     

    vinci61

    Senior Member
    Chinese
    I would pause (very slightly) only after "pose".
    Hi, Parla. Thank you for your opinion. :)
    I think Entanglebank in #9 explained really good and I am not thinking about pausing now but how to improve my intonation and stressing and destressing when speaking.
    Good night.
     
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