How to create a list of verbs the "right" way

larshgf

Member
Danish
Hello,

This is really a crazy question - sorry!!

If I want to create a list of verbs (for learning purpose) I can make a list that includes active and passive forms for ALL verbs. But for many verbs you can create the passive forms by knowing the active forms. So I dont see the reason for doing both!

If - for instance - the goal is to show the 8 indicative forms of the verb then my proposal is to do only the following types:

- active verbs
- passive verbs where the action is done to the subject
- deponent verbs (passive form with active meaning)
- refleksive verbs in passive (example I comb my hair)

AND NOT the passive form of ordinary active verbs. Do you agree that the above mentioned verbs are sufficient?

Best Regards
Lars
 
  • διαφορετικός

    Senior Member
    Swiss German - Switzerland
    AND NOT the passive form of ordinary active verbs. Do you agree that the above mentioned verbs are sufficient?
    For learning purposes, you could list all irregularities of any verb, in order to be able to create any inflected form of any verb by the help of your list. But I am not sure whether this is your goal.
     

    larshgf

    Member
    Danish
    Thank you. You are right διαφορετικός. If the passive form is created in an irregular way then it could be included too.
    My purpose is to put the verbs from a given source into a database and use it in a pc-program. And it is easier to have one set of fields representing the indicative forms and use these (common) fields for both active and passive.
    Just asking this - rather odd - question, to hear if the above mentioned (in my question) is a common/regular way to create such a list.
     

    διαφορετικός

    Senior Member
    Swiss German - Switzerland
    Hi larshgf.
    The PONS German-Greek dictionary shows only the following forms of the verb "βλέπω" in the title:
    βλέπω <είδα, ειδώθηκα, ιδωμένος>
    ( βλέπω : Griechisch » Deutsch | PONS )
    (the forms are: first person singular: present active, aorist, aorist passive; passive perfect participle)
    This is not enough to find out all forms of βλέπω, but almost. (You can see them in the following table: Modern Greek Verbs - βλέπω, είδα, ειδώθηκα, ιδωμένος - I see, look, watch )

    If you have some computer programming skills, you might find the following text interesting:
    GrammaticalFramework/gf-rgl
    It is part of the Greek "RGL" of the "Grammatical Framework" presented on GF - Grammatical Framework
    On line 1144 ("mkVerbContracIrreg3"), you will also find the conjugation of βλέπω.

    Maybe you will also need this file as an example:
    GrammaticalFramework/gf-rgl
    On line 263, there is "βλέπω" again.
     
    Last edited:

    larshgf

    Member
    Danish
    The greek-german dictionary Langenscheidt is using this short list wit abriviated inperfective and perfective stems.
    Anyway I prefer to write the indicative forms in their full 1.person singularis.
    Concerning the programmin: I use Delphi (object pascal) and for some years now unicode has been supported. So the greek characters are not a problem anymore!
    Wonder what computerlanguage you showed me with the links above διαφορετικός?
     

    διαφορετικός

    Senior Member
    Swiss German - Switzerland
    Wonder what computerlanguage you showed me with the links above διαφορετικός?
    It is a special-purpose programming language for automated translation. It is explained on GF - Grammatical Framework . Recently I played a little with it, because I wanted to get / create a computer program which automatically conjugates Greek verbs. But I don't know whether I will complete it ever, currently I am not working on it.
    I do not suggest that you should learn that programming language, but maybe you can nevertheless see how Greek conjugation works (with all its irregularities), if you read the suggested files.
     

    Perseas

    Senior Member
    Greek
    Hello, all

    If I want to create a list of verbs (for learning purpose) I can make a list that includes active and passive forms for ALL verbs. But for many verbs you can create the passive forms by knowing the active forms. So I dont see the reason for doing both!

    If - for instance - the goal is to show the 8 indicative forms of the verb then my proposal is to do only the following types:

    - active verbs
    - passive verbs where the action is done to the subject
    - deponent verbs (passive form with active meaning)
    - refleksive verbs in passive (example I comb my hair)

    AND NOT the passive form of ordinary active verbs. Do you agree that the above mentioned verbs are sufficient?
    Lars,
    I think you want to create conjugation patterns. Am I right? So you should be interested in the forms a verb takes (stem, endings) in both voices, active and passive, rather than in the sense a verb is used (active/passive/middle/neutral disposition - ενεργητική/παθητική/μέση/ουδέτερη διάθεση).
    For example, the verb "ντύνομαι" in "Τώρα ντύνομαι" is passive voice (-μαι) and middle disposition ("I dress myself"). But the verb "λύνομαι" in "Το πρόβλημα λύθηκε από την Ελένη" is passive voice (-μαι) and passive disposition ("The problem was solved by Helen"), however it's conjugated exactly like "ντύνομαι". So I think you should be interested in how a verb is conjugated at the 8 tenses of the Modern Greek, and not in their disposition.
    If you are interested, there is a book by Άννα Ιορδανίδου "Τα ρήματα της Νέας Ελληνικής with conjugated verbs and conjugation patterns, which might be very helpful. In any case, good luck!
     
    Last edited:

    Αγγελος

    Senior Member
    Greek
    If the passive form (which can also be reflexive in meaning; there is no grammatical distinction between 'medial' (=reflexive) and true passive verbs in modern Greek, such as existed (though only in the future and aorist) in ancient Greek) exists, then yes, you can derive it from the the active form: γράφω/γράφομαι, πλένω/πλένομαι, τραβώ/τραβιέμαι, αφαιρώ/αφαιρούμαι... BUT:
    1. In verbs of the 2nd conjugation (those that are stressed on the ending), it is not always clear which passive form to use. τηλεφωνώ, for instance, makes τηλεφωνιέμαι, but εκφωνώ makes εκφωνούμαι.
    2. More importantly, you can't know a priori whether a given active verb has a passive form. 'I am hot' is ζεσταίνομαι, but 'I am cold' is κρυώνω, ΝΟΤ the non-existent passive *κρυώνομαι! So the existence of a passive form definitely ought to be mentioned in any list of verbs.
     

    grandcanyonaz

    Member
    English - USA
    I use the memrise.com website. Someone did a list of Greek verbs with all forms (past, past cont., future, present) and conjugation groups (active and passive). You can study the individual verbs and/or each individual group.

    Verbs
     
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