1. sonal.bahl Member

    Santiago, Chile
    English, Hindi, India
    What's the difference between HUBIERA and HUBIESE ? My Spanish teacher told me that they can be used inter-changebly, but I'm not so sure.
    I think hubiese/fuese are old fashioned ways of saying hubiera/fuera, like 'shall' and 'whom' are hardly used nowadays.
    Right or wrong ?
    Diverse thoughts would be appreciated.
    - Sonal
  2. Vespre Member

    Both forms are used indistinctly. So choose what you feel more comfortable with ;)
  3. Isa27 Member

    Spanish and Spain
    they are used indistinctly, none of them is old fashioned. they are correct both.
  4. friedfysh Senior Member

    Doncaster, UK
    England, United Kingdom (English)
    they are both used in spain exactly the same way, however in mexico i have never heard hubiese. In fact I have only heard fuese once and the rest of the time I have just heard the -era versions.
  5. Mr. Bear Senior Member

    San Bernardino, CA
    Un saludo,

    While I'm only a student myself, it's my understanding that only in Spain will you hear the -ese endings. They mean exactly the same thing, but I never see or hear them when I'm in Mexico, and all of Latin America is reputed to use only the -era endings. (with the possible exception of small pockets of populations. Supposedly every possible variation of Spanish can be found somewhere in Latin America, but the more unusual ones, or ones used primarily only in Spain are limited to small pockets of people.)

  6. Alelo Senior Member

    Yes, the -iese ending is pretty much still used in Spain, while in Mexico, it is pretty much extinct (the first time I saw it was on these very forums!) Just like os and vos are not used in Mexico either (but I believe some south american countries still use them.)
  7. képi Senior Member

    CA, USA
    English, USA
    I agree with Alelo.
    I have to say that it's been a long time since I heard "-iese." MY Spanish teacher said that the -iera eding is more common worldwide....
  8. Jellby

    Jellby Senior Member

    Spanish (Spain)
    When they are used as a real subjunctive, both "-ra" and "-se" forms are exactly the same and they can be freely interchanged. Different speakers or regions may have different preferences, or you can choose one or the other according to what sounds better: I would say "esperase" better than "esperara" or "quisiera" better than "quisiese".

    However, in some cases the "-ra" form can be used with indicative or conditional meaning ("el que fuera ministro...", "te lo hubiera dicho antes, pero..."), the "-se" form would be incorrect here. This is an advanced topic, anyway.
  9. friedfysh Senior Member

    Doncaster, UK
    England, United Kingdom (English)
    This is interesting, could you give more examples of where -era can be used but -ese can't please?
  10. cheetrowe

    cheetrowe Senior Member

    New Jersey
    I see that this thread was opened a while ago, but I have the same question.

    I was taught in Guatemala that the two forms were interchangeable, but I was corrected by friends in Venezuela and Ecuador when I used the iera form "incorrectly" when apparently, I was told, I should have used iese. I've also heard both forms used regularly by speakers of various ages in Colombia, Venezuela, and Mexico. It's been a while now so I can't remember the examples, but my friends were sure that there was a difference, even though as native speakers they had trouble dissecting when and why one form would be used over the other. Their best guess at the time was that the difference had to do with the recency of the event being referred to with the verb, but I don't think that ended up working as a rule very well.

    So, my intention with this post is basically to reopen this important thread. Does anyone have some clues as to why one form is used more commonly in a given situation? Is it that some verbs sound more natural in the iera or iese form as mentioned by one respondent above, or is there an actual rule that accounts for most situations? (I know no rule is perfect, but if it can account for 80% of situations, that's an excellent start from my perspective.)

    Thanks in advance for any assistance you can provide!
  11. Kraken

    Kraken Senior Member

    Valladolid (España)
    Castellano (Español)
    As some members have previously stated, both are exactly the same, with no difference whatsoever.
    I speak from Valladolid, in the heart of Spain. Maybe others will tell you different, since the Spanish language bears slight differences (and sometimes not that slight) depending on the country.
    But if you want to know it from the horse's mouth, every Spanish around will tell you what you already know: they are the same.
  12. cheetrowe

    cheetrowe Senior Member

    New Jersey
    Thanks for your response Kraken. Your comment is definitely helpful

    Also, if anyone out there from South America can share their thoughts on this issue, that would be very informative, as my only experiences with being corrected on iese/iera usage have come from some Andean region countries, and I'm not sure if certain verbs just sounded better to the few speakers who corrected me, or if I really should improve my usage in this area.

    Thanks again Kraken and anyone else who can contribute!
  13. Giorgio Lontano

    Giorgio Lontano Senior Member

    Nova Guatemala da Assunção.
    Guatemala - Español
    Hi! Did you study in Antigua? Panajachel? They have some fine Spanish schools in those towns. :thumbsup:

    Do you remember the phrase that your friends "corrected"? That should help...

  14. cheetrowe

    cheetrowe Senior Member

    New Jersey
    Hi there Giorgio,

    I studied in Antigua and had a great learning experience there. I apologize for not being able to give more context, but all I can remember is that I was corrected one time when I used hubiera and my friend said I should have used hubiese. Knowing my level of Spanish at the time, I was most likely saying something like

    Si no hubiera gastado mi dinero, habria comprado el carro. (not really that sentence, but the same tenses)

    I was corrected a couple of times by at least two and I believe three different speakers in South America, for different sentences that unfortunately I can't remember. I'm just not certain if it's a personal or regional preference or really something I should pay more attention to. Thanks for any thoughts and take care!
  15. Kraken

    Kraken Senior Member

    Valladolid (España)
    Castellano (Español)
    La construcción gramatical es impecable.

    Maybe it's just a matter of "local usage", and, well, what can I say. When in Rome do as the Romans do. But knowing that your sentence was genuinely Spanish and by the rules.
  16. Ynez Senior Member

    Creo que es bastante probable que en algunas zonas digan "hubiese" en vez de "hubiera" en tu oración (suena muy familiar) , pero en general, usamos cualquiera de las dos.
  17. TetrikFreak New Member

    Not every south/central american knows how to correctly use these words. So, do not expect to find a completely right answer. The common (poor/ignorant) spanish-speaking individual does not even use this pair of words. In most common spanish conversation you would hear hubiera and not hubiese. Always check with a professor.
  18. Ynez Senior Member

    Yes, we use "hubiera" a lot. What's the problem?

    Make sure a professor is not telling you something inaccurate.
  19. chamyto

    chamyto Senior Member

    Burgos, Spain
    Hubiera / hubiese is the same for me.
  20. Ynez Senior Member

    I think we need to differentiate which type of linguistic answer we are going to get from normal people or teachers. Any of them could give us a perfect answer (which is difficult sometimes), but in general a normal person will put more emphasis on what is normally said and a teacher will focus on what is in theory the best thing to say.

    Explaining language points can be really difficult at times and we all can be confused and confusing. :(
  21. cholis

    cholis Member

    I'm from Argentina, and both are the same.

    Remember one thing: not all the spanish speaking people use the lenguage correctly. In fact, I have friends that pronounce or write or use wrong some words. My mother is a teacher, so she corrects me all the time (and that bothers of corse ha ha).

    When one is studing another lenguage, you are almost obliged to use the lenguage right according to grammar. Then, if you are lucky and live at least 2 years in a country where speaks that lenguage you can learn other expressions and uses. But there are a lot of countrys where speak spanish, so you'll find a lot of expressions, uses, variants and connotations.

    I allaways say: sorry any spelling mistake, I just know some enligsh.
  22. PACOALADROQUE Senior Member

    El Puerto de Santa María (CÁDIZ-ESPAÑA)
    En este enlace de la RAE puedes ver la conjugación del verbo haber y comprobar que es intercambiable hubiera/hubiese.

  23. CarlosKr New Member

    Spanish - Peru
    I am from Peru and for me both "hubiera" and "hubiese" are absolutely interchangebly. It would even be hard for me to know which one I used more. I think I am equally likely to use either one. I also think that it is wise for Spanish language learners to ask for feedback from teachers rather than from any native speakers. Oftentimes, for us Spanish speakers, when we go to school, we care more about orthography and spelling rather than grammar and there might be some people that are not aware that both are the same and yet use both forms indistinctly.
  24. cdowis Member

    english -- USA
    Si hubiese llegado Bobby, ya me hubiese ido.
    If Bobby had arrived, I would have left.

    This is from a telenovela in Yabla with the country of Argentina
  25. aprendiendo argento

    aprendiendo argento Senior Member

    Premantura - Croatia
    Croatian (Chakavian)
    Yup, in Argentina -se is a pretty frequent alternative, it does not sound formal or dated, like in Spain, and unlike in Mexico.
    Language courses focusing on Mexican Spanish tend to advise: don't bother with -se forms because they're rarely used.
  26. ryandward

    ryandward Senior Member

    English - USA
    When I was studying abroad in Sevilla, my host mother told me that they were not the same, but when I asked her what the difference was she couldn't explain it.

    She just said something like "Depende de la oración."

  27. Big Lar Senior Member

    República Dominicana
    US (English)
    Muy interesante esta conversación. A mi me enseñaron con no hay diferencia entre -iera y -iese, pero sí entiendo que es preferable no usar la misma forma dos veces en la misma oración. Segun este consejo, se diría: Si hubiese llegado Bobby, ya me hubiera ido.
  28. MysieBlondie

    MysieBlondie Senior Member

    United States, English
    I found a paragraph in the Spanish version of "La Princesita" by Frances Hodgson Burnett, that uses both variations and I thought I'd just revive this thread so we could talk about why they used one vs. the other in this context.

    Si Sara hubiera sido una niña común y corriente, la vida que lle- vó en ese colegio de la señorita Minchin durante el transcurso de los años siguientes, no habría resultado bueno para ella. La trataban más como a una huésped distinguida, que como a una alumna. Si su carácter hubiese sido egoísta y dominante, con tantas li- sonjas se habría convertido en una niña insoportable. Y de haber sido indolente, nada habría aprendido.

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