Hujar

Rainbowlight

Senior Member
Spanish
Hello,

First of all, I apologize for not being able to write this message in the Ukrainian language.

I am looking for a correct/accurate pronunciation of the surname Hujar, which I believe is of Ukrainian origin.

If possible, I would also like to know if the word has any meaning at all.

Again, I apologize for not using your beautiful language when writing this message.

Thank you very much,

Rainbowlight
 
  • jasio

    Senior Member
    If I get the transliteration correctly, perhaps an IPA transcription would be [ɦuʝaɾ]. You're a Spanish speaker, so if you happen to come from Castilla or are acquainted with European castillan pronunciacion, the closes match using castillan orthography would probably be [guyar].

    But since you mentioned the origin of the name, the current bearers may as well use the pronunciation of their current inhabitance country.

    EDIT: Indeed, Panceltic apparently got it correctly (Hujar) as Гудзяр [ɦud͡zʲar].
     
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    Rainbowlight

    Senior Member
    Spanish
    If I get the transliteration correctly, perhaps an IPA transcription would be [ɦuʝaɾ]. You're a Spanish speaker, so if you happen to come from Castilla or are acquainted with European castillan pronunciacion, the closes match using castillan orthography would probably be [guyar].

    But since you mentioned the origin of the name, the current bearers may as well use the pronunciation of their current inhabitance country.
    Thank you so much for your help. I have just one more question. Is the stress on the [gu] syllable or in the [yar] one? Thank you in advance.
     

    Panceltic

    Senior Member
    Slovenščina
    Is "Hujar" written in Spanish, so pronounced [uxar] ? Or is it Ukrainian written in Latin?

    EDIT: So I did some googling, and Hujar is actually the English spelling of the surname. Wikipedia says the native Ukrainian form is Гудзяр [ɦud͡zʲar]. If you put it into Google Translate and set the language to Ukrainian, you can listen to a pretty good pronunciation.
     
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    Rainbowlight

    Senior Member
    Spanish
    Is "Hujar" written in Spanish, so pronounced [uxar] ? Or is it Ukrainian written in Latin?

    EDIT: So I did some googling, and Hujar is actually the English spelling of the surname. Wikipedia says the native Ukrainian form is Гудзяр [ɦud͡zʲar]. If you put it into Google Translate and set the language to Ukrainian, you can listen to a pretty good pronunciation.

    I have just done what you told me, but I find it pretty hard to get some of the sounds, as they are almost alien to the languages I speak. It is weird, as
    I have just pasted his complete name on Google Translate and it really sounds like a (slightly soft) [x] at the beginning when voiced by the program.

    By the way, an uneducated pronunciation in Spanish would be probably something close to [uxar], yes, although many people would also could use the "ll" sound (a double l) for the letter J.
     

    Rainbowlight

    Senior Member
    Spanish
    Yes, г in Ukrainian is a voiced glottal fricative, you can find a good pronunciation here (the one on the Wiki page is rubbish). The other tricky one might be дзь which is a palatalized (softened) voiced alveolar affricate - the recording on the Wiki page is good, you just need to soften it.
    Thank you so much for your help, but I'm afraid I left my English Philology degree for several reasons, failing massively at Phonetics and Phonology being just one of them. I really need a soothing, well-educated, clear voice to truly get the pronunciation of the word I'm looking for. I might as well create a Forvo account and ask natives to upload their (hopefully) correct pronunciations. : )
     

    Panceltic

    Senior Member
    Slovenščina
    Ah OK :) Well in this case I guess you can substitute [ɦ] for [ɣ] which is the sound of intervocalic "g" in Spanish agua. They sound extremely similar.

    As for the [d͡zʲar], just say dzyar quickly.
     

    Rainbowlight

    Senior Member
    Spanish
    Ah OK :) Well in this case I guess you can substitute [ɦ] for [ɣ] which is the sound of intervocalic "g" in Spanish agua. They sound extremely similar.

    As for the [d͡zʲar], just say dzyar quickly.
    But is that substitution really that easy? I am a Spaniard myself and the sound of intervocalic "g" is pretty similar to the g in "Gill" or "gas". What are your thoughts on this?

    I think I am definitely opening a Forvo account, as it would make things run much quicker and smoother.

    On a more serious note, thanks for all your help.
     

    Panceltic

    Senior Member
    Slovenščina
    You can definitely substitute [ɦ] for [ɣ] and it won't even be noticed if you're a foreigner. They sound very similar.

    "G" in "gill" or "gas" or "go" is a true [g] though (spelled ґ in Ukrainian - compare with г in my other reply and you'll hopefully hear the difference!)
     

    jasio

    Senior Member
    I have just pasted his complete name on Google Translate and it really sounds like a (slightly soft) [x] at the beginning when voiced by the program.
    In Ukrainian there is a phonemic distinction between [ɦ] (etymologically pronounced as [g] in some other Slavic languages, including Russian and Polish) and [x] - somewhat similar to vago - bajo distinction in European Castillan.

    BTW - since you referred to the Google Translate, and earlier you had asked about the meaning of the name: I do not think that the translation of the name to "Good year", as shown in the app, is correct. To my ear it sounds like following a random phonological similarity - "good year" in Ukrainian is "хороший рік" - albeit it would be good if a native speaker could confirm that it's not based on words which are simply unknown to me.

    Now, when the spelling is decrypted, I can also note that a suggestion which was made in your thread in the Polish forum about resemblance of the name with a nasty word in Polish is superficial and is entirely based on a quite random spelling similarity. That word is also known in Ukrainian and Russian, is pronounced with [x] rather than [ɦ] (in Polish the two consonants merged, while in those languages - they did not), so you may safely abandon the idea.

    In a Ukrainian dictionary I've found verbs like гудити, гудіти and a noun гусар - they may have something in common with Гудзяр - or they may not considering that demography of Ukraine was historically quite complex and the language and its dialects were influenced by Russian, Polish, Hungarian, German, Jewish, Greek, Turkic languages, Mongol, Armenian, Cuman - and perhaps many more languages.

    EDIT: For example, there is a Hungarian name Hugyár, which for a Slavic ear sounds quite similar ("gya" in Hungarian sounds quite close to "дзя" in Ukrainian).
     
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    Marusya

    New Member
    Russian, Ukrainian
    I am a Ukrainian teacher.
    Khujar or Hujar is not a Ukrainian word. This is closer to the Tatars.
     

    Marusya

    New Member
    Russian, Ukrainian
    But is that substitution really that easy? I am a Spaniard myself and the sound of intervocalic "g" is pretty similar to the g in "Gill" or "gas". What are your thoughts on this?

    I think I am definitely opening a Forvo account, as it would make things run much quicker and smoother.

    On a more serious note, thanks for all your help.
    Make the sound ґ with your throat.
    If you need help in Ukrainian, you can contact me.
     
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