I expected to have been / had expected < to be/ that I would be>

Julianus

Senior Member
Korean
Hello.

I have read the following sentence in the internet.

I expected to have been invited to the party by then.

Then, If I exchange that sentence into the following two sentence, do both sentence have the same meaning with the former sentence?


1. I had expected to be invited to the party by then.

2. I had expected that I would be invited to the party by then.


Thank you in advance.
 
  • wandle

    Senior Member
    English - British
    Unfortunately, the sentence you quote from the internet is not logically expressed.
    For this situation, we need to establish what has happened, and when it happened.
    There are three time stages here:

    (a) the period of time when the writer was waiting for an invitation: that is, the period before 'then';
    (b) 'then': the point of time by which (= before which) an invitation should have been made; and
    (c) the point of time when the sentence was written.

    Let us say that (a) was the period from Monday to Friday, (b) was Saturday and (c) was Sunday.
    In other words, the writer, writing on Sunday, already sees Saturday as a point in the past, and sees the period Monday to Friday as one stage further back in the past than (b).

    This means the writer's expectation of being invited came to an end on Friday night, because he was expecting the invitation by Saturday (= before Saturday). Looking back now on Sunday, he sees the expectation as two steps back in the past.

    He therefore says 'I had expected to be invited to the party by then'. :tick:

    He had had that expectation up to the end of Friday. After that, on Saturday, he no longer had the expectation. It was over, finished, gone. Therefore, given that Saturday is already past, the past perfect shows that the expectation had existed only in the earlier past stage: before Saturday.
     
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    Julianus

    Senior Member
    Korean
    My grammar book ,which has many errors, explains that these three pattern sentences have the same meaning as follows.

    1. I hoped to have seen her yesterday.

    2. I had hoped to see her yesterday.

    3. I had hoped that I would see her yesterday.

    My book explains that these three sentences have the meaning of "I hoped to see her yesterday, but I couldn't."

    Then, is my book incorrect?
     
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    wandle

    Senior Member
    English - British
    No, your book is correct. You can apply the same changes to the above example:

    (1) 'I had expected to be invited to the party by then'. :tick:
    (2) 'I expected to have been invited to the party by then.' :tick:
    (3) 'I had expected that I would be invited to the party by then'. :tick:

    All these have the same meaning.
    Note that in (2) it is the infinitive which has been shifted one stage back in time, rather than the main verb: but the back-shift has still been done.
     

    wandle

    Senior Member
    English - British
    Checking back, I see that I have said that the original sentence was illogical, and later that it is correct. I am sorry to have given a contradictory impression.
    There may be ground to question the logic of it, but I do believe it is an acceptable sentence for the intended meaning.
     

    giuggiola91

    Senior Member
    Italian
    In place of "I expected to have been invited to the party by then" could I say "I expected that I would have been invited to the party by then" ?

    Thanks
     
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