I <had> won the lottery and had a lot of money

JJXR

Senior Member
Russian
Hello to all,

Thanks for reading my post.


Context:

The winning of the lottery is earlier in time than the giving of the money.

Sample sentences:


Dialog #1:

John: "Why did you give me $1000 when I met you last Sunday?"
Chris: "I <had> won the lottery and had a lot of money."

Dialog #2:

John: "Why did you give me $1000 when I met you?"
Chris: "I <had> won the lottery and had a lot of money."

Dialog #3:

John: "Why did you give me $1000 last Sunday?"
Chris: "I <had> won the lottery and had a lot of money."

Dialog #4:

John: "Why did you give me $1000?"
Chris: "I <had> won the lottery and had a lot of money."

Question:

As I understand from e2efour's response including the "had" is preferable in Dialog #1. Should the "had" be included in dialogs #2, #3, and #4? Does the way John's question is formed make a difference to the choice of tense in Chris's sentence? I'm wondering about both BE and AE.


Thanks a lot for any comments, corrections or suggestions!

Regards,
JJXR
 
  • lingobingo

    Senior Member
    English - England
    It makes no difference in the first three, since in each case the reference is to a past event.

    The last one can be seen the same way, but it’s the only one that could conceivably have been said immediately or shortly after the money had been handed over. If so, the present perfect rather than the past perfect could be used.

    John: "Why did you [just] give me $1000?"
    Chris: "I’ve won the lottery and have a lot of money."​
     

    JJXR

    Senior Member
    Russian
    Thanks for the response, lingobingo.

    In the case of a reference to a past event, which do you prefer: "had" or no "had"?
     

    lingobingo

    Senior Member
    English - England
    In general? (If so, it depends on the context.) Or in your examples 1–3? (In which case you need the past perfect.)
     

    Myridon

    Senior Member
    English - US
    As you may have read in your earlier threads, we only "need" to use "had" if it's not clear which happened first.
    If you say, "A and B," the most natural assumption is that A happened and then B happened. Additionally, we know that you must have money before you can give money, so it seems obvious that "winning the lottery" precedes "giving (the lottery) money to someone." If you had a lot of money even before you won the lottery, there's no reason to mention the lottery.
     

    JJXR

    Senior Member
    Russian
    Thanks for the response, Myridon.

    This is my conclusion regarding the four dialogs in post #1:

    In BE, it is preferable to include the "had" because the winning is earlier in time than the giving of the money. The context makes the sequence of events clear, but still, for some reason, it is preferable to include the "had".

    In AE, it is preferable not to include the "had". The reason being that the context makes the sequence of events clear.

    BE speakers and AE speakers please confirm this. Thanks in advance!
     

    Glasguensis

    Signal Modulation
    English - Scotland
    It’s not clear how you reached your conclusion, but regardless of that it is incorrect. In both AE and BE it is possible to use the past perfect but not necessary, since the sequence of events is obvious. I would say that in both AE and BE it would be more common to use the simple past here.
     

    JJXR

    Senior Member
    Russian
    Thanks for the response, Glasguensis.
    It’s not clear how you reached your conclusion
    lingobingo said the following in post #4 and post #2:
    Or in your examples 1–3? (In which case you need the past perfect.)
    The last one can be seen the same way
    e2efour confirmed what I said in another thread:
    If the question was "Why did you give me $1000 when I met you last Sunday?" instead of "Why were you so happy when I met you last Sunday?", in which case "did you give me" does not refer to a state, I think you would still prefer the past perfect "had won" because the winning would be earlier in time than the giving of the money. Am I right?
    Corrrect!
    Myridon says in post #6 that the past perfect is not necessary:
    As you may have read in your earlier threads, we only "need" to use "had" if it's not clear which happened first.
    If you say, "A and B," the most natural assumption is that A happened and then B happened. Additionally, we know that you must have money before you can give money, so it seems obvious that "winning the lottery" precedes "giving (the lottery) money to someone." If you had a lot of money even before you won the lottery, there's no reason to mention the lottery.
    RM1(SS) says in the thread linked to above that AE speakers wouldn't use the past perfect in my sentences (they are similar to the sentence in post #1):
    Most AE speakers, I think, wouldn't use "had won" in any of those sentences.
    __________________________________

    e2efour and lingobingo are BE speakers, whereas Myridon and RM1(SS) are AE speakers. Hence my conclusion.
     

    lingobingo

    Senior Member
    English - England
    My reason for stating that the past perfect is needed in examples 1–3 is that they specifically refer to a past occasion and/or time: when I met you / last Sunday. If you then say “I won the lottery”, there’s an implication that you mean you did so on that occasion/day.

    Why did you give me that money on Sunday? — I won the lottery. (on Sunday?!)
    Why did you give me that money on Sunday? — I’d won the lottery. :tick: (before that day)
    Why did you give me that money on Sunday? — I had a lot of money. :tick: (on that day)
     
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