I have <got> ... ... have you <got>? ... do you have?

volver

Senior Member
french belgium
Hello,



What type of ink have you got ?

What type of ink you have got ?


Which one is correct ?


Thank you


VOLVER
 
  • sloopjc

    Senior Member
    UK English
    I'm not sure why, but I would ask:

    "What type of car have you got?" or
    "What type of ink do you have?"

    It's something to do with walking into a shop and wanting to see a selection of inks for sale, as opposed to a conversation about cars.
     

    jimmyb

    Member
    English UK
    "Have you got" is very much for us Brits and I agree it doesn't always sound nice. It can cause confusion with non native speakers when " have got to" is brought in as well, in the sense of "must"

    Again this is very British but we quite like it at times and it's useful for song lyrics

    "(I've) got to get you into my life" etc.

    There is nothing really wrong with ".....have you got?" though. We had the language first after all:D
     

    Tabac

    Senior Member
    U. S. - English
    Do... have... Do... have... Do... have...

    It's no good. However many times I add it up, it still makes two. :D
    Touché. O.k. Yes, two verbs, but not two that essentially mean the same thing. Do is the auxiliary to use with have. Got has so many meanings that it practicaly has none. "I got a phone call last night" = "I had a phone call last night". See my point? I cannot say that it is completely wrong, because sooooo many people use it, especially in Britain. I just don't like it for the stated reasons.
     

    winklepicker

    Senior Member
    English (UK)
    Touché. O.k. Yes, two verbs, but not two that essentially mean the same thing. Do is the auxiliary to use with have. Got has so many meanings that it practically has none. "I got a phone call last night" = "I had a phone call last night". See my point? I cannot say that it is completely wrong, because sooooo many people use it, especially in Britain. I just don't like it for the stated reasons.
    Threeché. :) I understand your reasons. This is interesting, though. Would I be right in thinking also that for AE speakers the positive version I have got is universally replaced by I have?
     

    omgbanana

    New Member
    United States (English)
    I hear a good mixture of "I have", "I got", and "I have got" in the US.

    I think it's pretty regional. Sentence structure can vary quite a bit across the US. Personally, I feel avoiding "got" sounds slightly more refined. "I have a car", "What do you have?", etc. Though, the "'got' conjugation" slips into my daily speech often.

    "Got" is spreading, I think. I find that "got" is used for simple past a lot. "I got shot", "I got kicked out."
     

    Tabac

    Senior Member
    U. S. - English
    Threeché. :) I understand your reasons. This is interesting, though. Would I be right in thinking also that for AE speakers the positive version I have got is universally replaced by I have?
    Unfortunately, we hear it all the time in the U.S. I just mentioned BE because I've heard reports on these boards that it's very common, if not normal, there.
     

    Dimcl

    Senior Member
    Canadian English
    My two cents... for some reason, I try not to use "got" and I think it's simply because I don't like the sound of the word. I, too, catch myself using it from time to time but only in the sense of receiving something ie:

    "I got a phone call from my sister today"

    "I got a ticket for speeding"

    We've established that "What type of ink have you got" is the correct way to say it in terms of Volver's original question but I'm with Shelby and Tabac... "...do you have" is the way I'd say it.
     

    Celestianpower

    Member
    English, United Kingdom
    At the risk of straying slightly off-topic...

    Would anyone say 'What type of ink have you?' ?

    No; the sentences looks unfinished to me. What type of ink have you ...? Spilt? Given? Eaten?

    For me, "have you" is only used in the perfect tense, though I guess I might say "Have you the time?" if I were feeling particularly formal or pretentious.

    CP
     

    mplsray

    Senior Member
    Touché. O.k. Yes, two verbs, but not two that essentially mean the same thing. Do is the auxiliary to use with have. Gothas so many meanings that it practicaly has none. "I got a phone call last night" = "I had a phone call last night". See my point? I cannot say that it is completely wrong, because sooooo many people use it, especially in Britain. I just don't like it for the stated reasons.

    I take it you are implying that the have in have got has the same meaning as got. This is flatly wrong, since it has no such meaning. The have in have got is historically an auxiliary, a function word, which had no meaning of its own but instead merely served a grammatical function. Have got, originally used to show that one had obtained something, came to have a meaning identical to have in the sense of "possess," but it is faulty grammatical analysis to consider the have of have got to have the same meaning as the verb have in the meaning of "'possess."

    It's just as faulty to consider the got in have got to mean "possess." Got means "possess" in some nonstandard dialects, but it emphatically does not mean "possess" in the entirely standard have got. Instead, historically a past particle, it is an element in a phrasal verb, the whole verb being necessary to carry the sense of "possess."
     

    Hockey13

    Senior Member
    AmEnglish/German
    Hey, winklepicker. I'd scrap your generalization if I were you. I use "have you got" 90% of the time and so do many of the people I know. Perhaps it is regional, but when once someone from Britain told me it is a BE thing, I hastened to point out that I thought it was the other way around. To me, saying "What type of ink do you have" sounds very Midwest, and I'm originally from the New York area. Another very, very, very common phrase for me is:

    What've you got?

    or..

    Whatcha got?
     

    mplsray

    Senior Member
    Threeché. :) I understand your reasons. This is interesting, though. Would I be right in thinking also that for AE speakers the positive version I have got is universally replaced by I have?

    No, although I would expect I've got to be used much more often than I have got.

    A prominent example of such usage was America Online's adoption of You've got mail! as their notification to the recipient that he had received e-mail. I am aware of no evidence that AOL used You've got mail! in order to generate controversy. It seems likely that they chose it for its informal tone—while keeping to standard usage. The use of the contraction you've is evidence of that (again, informal but entirely standard).

    Someone once told me that AOL had changed the message, or offered other alternatives to the message, but it's been a long time since I've seen AOL software in operation, so I can't say if that's true.
     

    El Sicario

    Member
    Colombia - Spanish
    Well, down here in South America little kids at school are taught to use "have got," referring to "possession," rather than "have." When I was also taught in this way, it played havoc with my mind when I had to use the perfect tenses; if I said, "I have got an accident," it sounded sort of awkward, as if to meaning, "I possess an accident."

    Many people learning English down here are taught the British way; it's understandable in some of the South American countries, like Chile, which governments have got (you see?) a close relationship with the Brits.

    But us?; we're so close to the Yanks that I will just suffice to swim a little in the Caribbean sea to reach them... I got accustomed to using "have got" now instead of "have."
     

    winklepicker

    Senior Member
    English (UK)
    Have got, originally used to show that one had obtained something, came to have a meaning identical to have in the sense of "possess,"

    Brilliant, mplsray, thank you. That is exactly the nuance we have in BE: I've got actually means something different from I have: it means I have obtained - though just like AE, we (mis)use it very commonly to mean I have.

    So - we've established that it is a regional, dialect or register thing not an AE/BE thing (unless, ShelbyAnne, you disagree?). Which is nice.

    So, revenir à les moutons de Volver, What type of ink you have got? I think we all agree is wrong. What type of ink have you got? seems to be OK in most circumstances and places. Although perhaps not as strictly correct as What type of ink do you have? it strikes many or most ears as natural.

    Any quibbles, anyone?
     

    winklepicker

    Senior Member
    English (UK)
    You have it, I want it, and when it's mine, I can say, I went to get it and now I've got it!:)

    You're right, Sloop. I've got it DOES mean I have it in this situation. I've got a bike, because there was a time when I didn't have it. What about things we were born with though? eg I've got blue eyes.
     

    sloopjc

    Senior Member
    UK English
    What about things we were born with though? eg I've got blue eyes.


    I have blue eyes. I have them, they're mine. :tick:
    I've got blue eyes. Where did you get them, from your mother? ;)

    For the permanent case, I would suggest, have is the correct word when talking about yourself. However, it's more descriptive of yourself and others to say I have, she has etc.

    I feel also, that people are inclined to say, I have blue eyes but he's got blue eyes in order to express the statement impersonally, i.e. when not describing one friend to another.
     

    ShelbyAnne

    New Member
    EE.UU, English
    So I spoke with my professor who has a doctorate in English and he says that, "got" is a terrible word to use in most English sentences.

    "I got it!" as in I got the ball
    "I got tampons at the grocery store." another use of it.

    GOT is the past tense of "to have"

    The helping verb and main verb are split up which is incorrect in the "have you got" structure.

    I have it, I will get it, I got it.

    What type of ink do you have? I have black ink.
    What type of ink did you get? I got black ink.

    Hope this explaination helps as to why it is incorrect.

    I don't believe that just because 90% of people say something a certain way (which I'd like to know where you GOT your statistics) means it is correct. I say a lot of things different from the way I would write them. Our spoken word doesn't necessarily follow the standards of written grammar.

    :) That's why I'm here.
     

    soupdragon78

    Senior Member
    England English
    GOT is the past tense of "to have"

    Hi Shelby. I'm not being mean but my dictionary says that GOT is the past tense and the past participle of "to get"

    HAD is both the past tense and the past participle of "to have".

    Back on topic though, I thought that "...have you got?" was generally frowned on in the States because of a dislike for ending sentences with prepositions.
    What do you think?
     

    winklepicker

    Senior Member
    English (UK)
    So I spoke with my professor who has a doctorate in English
    - instant cause for suspicion :D
    and he says that, "got" is a terrible word to use in most English sentences.
    - ask him about 'nice'. He'll say the same thing. Why do academics do this? Get is the most flexible word in the English language, and one of the most often used. It must be snobbery I'm afraid.
    I don't believe that just because 90% of people say something a certain way (which I'd like to know where you GOT your statistics) means it is correct.
    Ah! A prescriptivist in the making. :D
     

    ShelbyAnne

    New Member
    EE.UU, English
    GOT is the past tense of "to have"

    Hi Shelby. I'm not being mean but my dictionary says that GOT is the past tense and the past participle of "to get"

    HAD is both the past tense and the past participle of "to have".

    Back on topic though, I thought that "...have you got?" was generally frowned on in the States because of a dislike for ending sentences with prepositions.
    What do you think?

    "got" is a past tense verb as you pointed out. So, the sentence would and still will be ending with a verb which is NOT frowned upon in the US.

    So let's disect the sentence word for word....

    What kind of ink do you currently have you got?

    What kind of ink do you currently have you got in the past?

    What kind of ink do you currently have?

    'have' implies currently, and 'got' is past tense. Remember you're mixing up the main verb and the helping verb.
     

    ShelbyAnne

    New Member
    EE.UU, English
    - instant cause for suspicion :D - ask him about 'nice'. He'll say the same thing. Why do academics do this? Get is the most flexible word in the English language, and one of the most often used. It must be snobbery I'm afraid.Ah! A prescriptivist in the making. :D

    Atleast I'm giving my professor the credit for having consulted him. There's no need to attack him. Please let me know your credentials and maybe I'll pay more attention to what you say.

    I'm not sure who it was that gave the stat "90% of people say this" but it's an Appeal to the People type of fallacy which is a bad argument.

    Amen.
     

    mplsray

    Senior Member
    "got" is a past tense verb as you pointed out. So, the sentence would and still will be ending with a verb which is NOT frowned upon in the US.

    So let's disect the sentence word for word....

    What kind of ink do you currently have you got?

    What kind of ink do you currently have you got in the past?

    What kind of ink do you currently have?

    'have' implies currently, and 'got' is past tense. Remember you're mixing up the main verb and the helping verb.

    Let's take a look at the word must.

    I must go to Chicago tomorrow.

    I will have to go to Montreal after I leave Chicago.

    I had to leave Minneapolis on Monday.

    Must does not have either a past tense nor a future tense. Yet it is entirely standard.

    How we label such matters is another question. I said in a previous post that got in have got does not carry the sense of possession. The Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary, on the other hand, treats have got thus, under the entry word get:

    10 a : HAVE -- used in the present perfect tense form with present meaning <I've got no money>

    So that dictionary is saying that got carries the sense of "possess," just that it does so only in a particular tense, resulting in a usage which, as in the case of must, has no past tense and no future tense.

    This is, in short, a particular idiomatic feature of English. Any attempt to criticize it on the basis of a grammatical argument is just as pointless as criticizing any other idiom on the basis of a grammatical argument.

    I hope the moderators will indulge me in the following, which I think will put the matter in some perspective:

    In French, Je ne marche pas means "I don't walk." Once upon a time, it meant "I don't walk [a] step." This was an emphatic way for the speaker to say that he doesn't walk. Over time, the sense of "step" was lost when pas was used when forming a negative sentence, so that today Je ne sais pas means "I don't know." It does not mean "I do not know a step"!

    Pas has taken on the negative function so strongly that in popular speech, the ne is very often dropped: Je sais pas.

    Language is not mathematics. It is a sort of social contract but one which has evolved. Je ne sais pas is grammatical in French because that's how it has evolved to be, not because there is some sort of nice logic to it. Je sais pas (or even Chais pas) is grammatical in informal spoken French because that's how it has evolved to be, not because there is some sort of nice logic to it.

    Similarly He must leave for Chicago tomorrow is grammatical in English because that's how it has evolved to be, not because there is some sort of nice logic to it. He's got blue eyes is grammatical in standard informal spoken English because that's how it has evolved to be, not because there is some sort of nice logic to it. He got blue eyes is grammatical in some nonstandard dialects because that's how it has evolved to be, not because there is some sort of nice logic to it.

    A person who attempts to argue that have got should not be used because it has no past or future tense is simply making an eccentric argument, just as eccentric as if he were to argue that must should not be used because it has no past or future tense, or if he were to argue that in French pas can only mean "step" and never not.

    Appeal to the people is not a logical fallacy when it comes to questions of standard usage. Indeed, any logical argument which comes to a result which is opposed to the actual usage of standard speakers cannot be said to be a correct description of the standard dialect of the language in question. At the very best, it can be said to be an intriguing take-off point for a language reform. But intentional language reforms, especially in a language like English which has no language academy, very rarely succeed. (A rare example is the American adoption of flammable for inflammable. But note that even in this case, the argument was not truly compelling: British English seems to get along just fine without it.)
     

    winklepicker

    Senior Member
    English (UK)
    Language is not mathematics. It is a sort of social contract but one which has evolved.
    What a fine description. We should all write this on a post-it note and stick it to our monitors.
    Appeal to the people is not a logical fallacy when it comes to questions of standard usage. Indeed, any logical argument which comes to a result which is opposed to the actual usage of standard speakers cannot be said to be a correct description of the standard dialect of the language in question.
    I like it so much when people say what I think 100 times more cogently than I can. Thank you mplsray.
     

    HistofEng

    Senior Member
    USA Eng, Haitian-Creole
    Perhaps in American English, to say that one has "come into posession" of something rather than "posesses" something, we may use "have gotten" instead.

    I've gotten blue eyes (not simple past, but past perfect) -- "I've come into posession of them at one point or another"
    I've got blue eyes -- "I have them"
     

    nichec

    Senior Member
    Chinese(Taiwan)
    Somehow for some reason, "I've got" is something I would never use/say/write myself. And when I do hear it, I often expect to hear it in Rock/Punk (my favorite, by the way), the same goes for "Have you got?".

    People around me always use "Do you have", including me.
     

    Forero

    Senior Member
    ... "I have got an accident," it sounded sort of awkward, as if to meaning, "I possess an accident."

    "I have got" does mean "I possess". Did you mean to say, "I have had an accident"?

    In AE, we distinguish "I have got" from "I have gotten". "I have gotten" is a form of "to get" in its literal senses. "I have got" is almost synonymous with "I have".

    I say "almost" because I feel there is a difference: To me, "I have" is rather general and diffuse:

    "I have time on my hands." = "I am accustomed to having extra time."
    "She has blue eyes." = "Her eyes are blue." [I am just stating a fact.]

    But "I have got" is more immediate:

    "I have got time on my hands." = "Right now I have extra time."
    "She's got blue eyes." = "The girl has blue eyes" or "Don't forget her blue eyes." [I want you to picture her with the blue eyes.]
     

    Forero

    Senior Member
    In questions and negative statements, we have more choices. To me, the shorter ones are more general:

    What have you got? [there in your hand]
    What do you have? [here or back at home]
    What have you? [No idea where]

    I haven't got any ink. [here with me]
    I don't have any ink. [in my possession]
    I haven't any ink. [mine or access to anyone else's]
    I've no ink. [zero - none at all]
     
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