I honestly feel that R and L are in vowels.

konungursvia

Banned
Canada (English)
Or at least semi-vowels. Some of my reasons:

1) They cannot be uttered as an unvoiced consonant version.
2) Their quality is produced by the position of the tongue and other parts of the mouth.
3) They can be sustained in song.
4) They (or at least R) can be pronounced along with vowels as mere modifications to the quality of those vowels (e.g. 'here' in the UK).
5) So in teaching English to foreigners I explain them along with other semi-vowels or semi-consonants, such as /w/, /j/.

It's only a personal opinion and judgment on the nature and classification of the sounds, but what do you think?
 
  • Frank06

    Senior Member
    Nederlands / Dutch (Belgium)
    Hi,
    Or at least semi-vowels. Some of my reasons:
    1) They cannot be uttered as an unvoiced consonant version.
    2) Their quality is produced by the position of the tongue and other parts of the mouth.
    3) They can be sustained in song.
    4) They (or at least R) can be pronounced along with vowels as mere modifications to the quality of those vowels (e.g. 'here' in the UK).
    5) So in teaching English to foreigners I explain them along with other semi-vowels or semi-consonants, such as /w/, /j/.
    I don't understand what you mean by (4). Could you please explain.
    But I have the impression that (1-3) also applies to /m/ and /n/ (and even /ng/?). And doesn't (2) apply to all speech sounds?

    Groetjes,

    Frank
     

    foxfirebrand

    Senior Member
    Southern AE greatly modified by a 1st-generation Scottish-American mother, and growing up abroad.
    How are they different from "v", for example? It seems it meets all these tests as well.
    Add /z/
    And edh, the voiced version of /th/
    And /gh/ which you pronounce in English by gargling-- making sure to sustain it in song.
    .
    .
     

    Kevman

    Senior Member
    USA English
    Hi konungursvia,

    R and L already have their own phonetic class: they are called liquids.
    Liquid consonants, or liquids, are approximant consonants that are not classified as semivowels (glides) because they do not correspond phonetically to specific vowels (in the way that, for example, the initial [j] in English yes corresponds to ). [source]
     

    mytwolangs

    Senior Member
    English United States
    R and L seem to be the hardest consanants for non-anglophones.
    Maybe that is why some speak Engrish and eat flied lice.
     

    rsweet

    Senior Member
    English, North America
    Interesting idea, but how about a word that uses these letters without other vowels? Vowels usually open up the spaces between consonants. Does one exist? Or do you think these letters just add their "vowelness" to other vowels?
     

    foxfirebrand

    Senior Member
    Southern AE greatly modified by a 1st-generation Scottish-American mother, and growing up abroad.
    Interesting idea, but how about a word that uses these letters without other vowels? Vowels usually open up the spaces between consonants. Does one exist? Or do you think these letters just add their "vowelness" to other vowels?
    How about the Duke of Rrrrl? And of course his dog, who says "Grrrr!"
    .
    .
     
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