'I hope + Present' vs 'I hope + Future'

Lovely R

Member
Russian
I came across a sentense where 'I hope' is followed by Present Simple:

'I'll be abroad. I hope the party goes well.'

Is there a difference between this one and 'I hope the party will go well'?
 
  • panjandrum

    Senior Member
    English-Ireland (top end)
    The difference is that "... goes well," sounds more natural :)
    I hope your team wins.
    I hope you get better soon.
    I hope it doesn't rain this afternoon.
    I hope you find this post helpful.
    I hope you enjoy the WordReference forums :)
     

    Dimcl

    Senior Member
    Canadian English
    I came across a sentense where 'I hope' is followed by Present Simple:

    'I'll be abroad. I hope the party goes well.'

    Is there a difference between this one and 'I hope the party will go well'?

    I'm not sure what you mean by "Is there a difference?". Either way, he hopes that the party is a good one!
     

    Lexiphile

    Senior Member
    England English
    Interesting question, Lovely.

    Although the party is quite clearly in the future, "I hope the party will go well" seems very strange. Perhaps the reason is that, when the party is actually going well, it is in the present.
     

    Lovely R

    Member
    Russian
    Interesting question, Lovely.

    Although the party is quite clearly in the future, "I hope the party will go well" seems very strange.
    I know, it's natural for you as a native speaker to say like that not pondering on the tenses, but is there any rule, that's the question. I ran into phrases both with Future and Present after 'I hope', that's why I'm wondering.
     

    Lexiphile

    Senior Member
    England English
    No rules that I know of.
    Most rules in English were created "after the fact," to describe what was already common usage. And it is the fact that this "common usage" seems to violate whatever rules there are that makes your question interesting. You can say it with the future tense, but we just don't (usually).

    English is full of anomalies and "why" questions that simply cannot be answered. That's why this forum is such fun -- it gives bored and long-winded foreros a chance to write reams and reams of theory about why we say "A" instead of "B."
     

    sound shift

    Senior Member
    English - England
    Sometimes "hope" is followed by the future tense:

    "I hope you'll come to the meeting."

    I cannot point to a grammatical rule because I was never taught any grammatical rules about the tense that should follow "hope". All I can suggest, Lovely R, is that you refer to a good manual of English grammar.
     

    Thomas Tompion

    Member Emeritus
    English - England
    But in Sound Shift's case one could also say I hope you come to the meeting.

    I can't think of a case (that doesn't mean there isn't one) where the future is mandatory, and can't be replaced with the present. Even if the future is very distant:

    I know that in five years time you are planning to come to Australia. I hope that when you are here you will come to see me - one could perfectly well say you come to see me.

    P.S. It occurs to me that when the hope is for something negative and the hope is in the nature of a command or warning that the future and present aren't really interchangeable:

    I hope you won't smoke in your bedroom isn't the same as I hope you don't smoke in your bedroom.

    Interestingly from the point of view of sequence of tenses when we say I hoped we usually need the conditional in the clause:

    I hoped you would come to see me.
     

    sound shift

    Senior Member
    English - England
    But in Sound Shift's case one could also say I hope you come to the meeting.

    I quite agree, Thomas, but I'm wondering whether "I hope you come to the meeting" means exactly the same as "I hope you'll come to the meeting". I think I sense in the latter an element of pleading ("Please come to the meeting"). I do not sense this element in the former. Or am I imagining things?
     

    Thomas Tompion

    Member Emeritus
    English - England
    I quite agree, Thomas, but I'm wondering whether "I hope you come to the meeting" means exactly the same as "I hope you'll come to the meeting". I think I sense in the latter an element of pleading ("Please come to the meeting"). I do not sense this element in the former. Or am I imagining things?
    No, I don't think you are, SS. I too sense a higher level of pleading in the one that uses the future - I hope you'll come to the meeting.

    It's a good point.
     

    se16teddy

    Senior Member
    English - England
    In I hope you come to the meeting, it is obvious (in most contexts at least) that the meeting is in the future, so there is no need to signal the future with will. You can put will in if will signals something other than futurity, for example consent.
     

    Lovely R

    Member
    Russian
    You know, I looked it up in grammar manuals, but haven't found anything concerning this exact case. It just seems to me that Present Simple is used here to convey the events planned beforehand.
     

    Egon Pauli

    New Member
    czech
    Thomas, could you please finish the explanation? You have an excellent point, just it is not clear what you mean by:

    P.S. It occurs to me that when the hope is for something negative and the hope is in the nature of a command or warning that the future and present aren't really interchangeable:

    I hope you won't smoke in your bedroom isn't the same as I hope you don't smoke in your bedroom.

    They aren't interchangeable means which one is a warning - the first or the second?
     

    Thomas Tompion

    Member Emeritus
    English - England
    I'm sorry to have been unclear, Egon.

    I hope you won't smoke in your bedroom is a polite way of saying you mustn't, I don't want you to.

    I hope you don't smoke in your bedroom
    expresses a distaste for the habit, but usually does not so clearly forbid it.
     

    Rudzielec

    Member
    Polish (Poland)
    Hello!

    I'm sorry to reactivate an old thread, but I thought it'd be good to keep the discussion in one place. Yesterday I came across a sentence where, for some reason, the present tense sounded strange to me and I'd love to hear a native's opinion.

    "Here's my address. I hope you send me a postcard."

    I really want to put 'll after you here, but I don't want to correct language that's perfectly acceptable just because I find it strange.

    Please let me know what you think.
     

    panjandrum

    Senior Member
    English-Ireland (top end)
    ...
    "Here's my address. I hope you send me a postcard."
    I really want to put 'll after you here, but I don't want to correct language that's perfectly acceptable just because I find it strange.
    ...
    I really want to do that too :)
    But I'm not surprised by the present version. Clearly, from the earlier posts, native speakers are generally content with the present tense.
    I can't explain why this example doesn't sound quite right when so many others do.
     

    Pertinax

    Senior Member
    BrE->AuE
    Yes, I think Teddy has nailed it.

    The present simple after hope already usually signals a future event, so the effect of "will" is modal: it expresses a hope that you are willing to do the act, a plea that you direct your will to that end, not a rude exhortation to do it whether you like it or not.

    If there is no question of the will being engaged then the present simple is simpler and generally preferred, as is clear from Panjandrum's examples in #2.
     

    taraa

    Senior Member
    Persian
    Yes, I think Teddy has nailed it.

    The present simple after hope already usually signals a future event, so the effect of "will" is modal: it expresses a hope that you are willing to do the act, a plea that you direct your will to that end, not a rude exhortation to do it whether you like it or not.

    If there is no question of the will being engaged then the present simple is simpler and generally preferred, as is clear from Panjandrum's examples in #2.
    Thank you so much :)
     

    Thomas Tompion

    Member Emeritus
    English - England
    The present simple after hope already usually signals a future event, so the effect of "will" is modal: it expresses a hope that you are willing to do the act,[...]
    I think this is very often true, but what about things like "I hope you will be able to go there some time soon"? I don't see that as expressing a hope about willingness to do something.
     

    Pertinax

    Senior Member
    BrE->AuE
    I think this is very often true, but what about things like "I hope you will be able to go there some time soon"? I don't see that as expressing a hope about willingness to do something.

    The context is ambiguous. Is the "you" here suffering from some kind of physical incapacity? In that case his recovery is not a question of will and so we could say:
    I hope you're able to go there some time soon.
    We might also say this if there is some other kind of constraint on him - e.g. if he is a juror in an extended trial, or has heavy responsibilities that preclude his travelling.

    Otherwise his will is certainly involved, and so a modal "will" would be more polite, just as the locution "be able to" is inserted (in this context) for politeness. He should also be willing to go; if he were unwilling then he would be going there against his will, and indeed the suggestion:
    I hope you're going there some time soon.
    .. could easily carry an air of menace, as if demanding that he go there whether he likes it or not.
     

    Thomas Tompion

    Member Emeritus
    English - England
    The context is ambiguous. Is the "you" here suffering from some kind of physical incapacity? In that case his recovery is not a question of will and so we could say:
    I hope you're able to go there some time soon.
    Certainly. I was simply producing a counterexample.

    I should have said that I didn't see the form using the future as necessarily implying that we were presenting a question of willingness. There are clearly instances where we aren't.
     

    Pertinax

    Senior Member
    BrE->AuE
    I suspect my expression "a hope that you are willing to do the act" was unclear. I did not intend by this that I was necessarily hoping for a willingness to perform the act in lieu of the act itself, but rather in addition to it. In other words, I politely hoped that the act be done willingly, rather than (say) out of a sense of obligation.
     

    alrosavilla

    Senior Member
    Russian
    As I see, this is not too trivial a topic even for native speakers. Could you please help me check my undertanding?
    Ususally you say 'I hope you have a good time.' But what if there is a person who's greatly depressed and wants nothing. Trying to get him out of the depression, the friedns of the person send him on a trip. They know that the person doesn't care about the trip whatsoever, but they want him to restore his taste of life. And, as parting words, someone says - I hope you will have a good time.
    In this context, the phrase still sounds odd? makes no sense?
     

    PaulQ

    Senior Member
    UK
    English - England
    In this context, the phrase still sounds odd? makes no sense?
    I'm not sure if you are asking a question or making a statement. :)

    English has no future tense as such - it is constructed. Will/shall only indicate present predictions of the future: "You will see him if you go to his office."; "I shall now perform a magic trick." Both are what the speaker presently thinks is the future.

    Will expresses volition, power and capacity, or habit:
    Volition often applies to inanimate object: "The wind blows where it will blow, and there's nothing you can do about it."
    Capacity: "Will all that fit into one box?"

    If you use "I hope" then, by definition, you are (i) causing will to express volition, (ii) expressing your current volition.
    "I hope [currently] all that will fit [at the time that you try to put it in] into one box ."
    "I hope [currently] all that fits [currently] into one box ."
     

    DonnyB

    Moderator Emeritus
    English UK Southern Standard English
    As I see, this is not too trivial a topic even for native speakers. Could you please help me check my undertanding?
    Ususally you say 'I hope you have a good time.' But what if there is a person who's greatly depressed and wants nothing. Trying to get him out of the depression, the friedns of the person send him on a trip. They know that the person doesn't care about the trip whatsoever, but they want him to restore his taste of life. And, as parting words, someone says - I hope you will have a good time.
    In this context, the phrase still sounds odd? makes no sense?
    To me, it sounds odd not because of the tense, but because it doesn't really fit the context.

    Usually, you wish somebody "a good time" if they're going on holiday or to somewhere like a party - in other words it carries the idea of "enjoy yourself". But in this case the idea seems to be that the trip is intended to have more of a therapeutic value: that he'll come back feeling better than when he went.
     

    alrosavilla

    Senior Member
    Russian
    So, the phrase 'I hope you will have a good time' is not the same as I hope You want to have a good time?'
     

    PaulQ

    Senior Member
    UK
    English - England
    No.
    'I hope you will have a good time' -> 'I hope [that] the time that you spend [somewhere/doing something] will be enjoyable'
    I hope you want to have a good time' -> I hope [that] you wish to experience an enjoyable time.
     

    alrosavilla

    Senior Member
    Russian
    Oxford dictionary says:
    will = A deliberate or fixed desire or intention.
    Plus, you say:
    Will expresses volition, power and capacity, or habit
    For these reasons, to me (apparently mistakably), I hope you will have a good time = I hope you have the will to have a good time (enjoy yourself)
    I understand that I'm wrong, but I still can't understand why. At what point my reasoning takes a wrong turn eludes me
     

    owlman5

    Senior Member
    English-US
    I understand that I'm wrong, but I still can't understand why. At what point my reasoning takes a wrong turn eludes me
    Remember that people also use will to refer to the future, alrosavilla. I hope that you will have a good time = I hope that you have a good time (in the future when you start doing whatever it is that you intend to do for your amusement.)
     

    alrosavilla

    Senior Member
    Russian
    I'm trying to understand why 'I hope that you will have a good time' sounds odd to a native speaker's ear. And why do some phrases like 'I hope Kate will pass the exam' sound ok.
     

    owlman5

    Senior Member
    English-US
    rying to understand why 'I hope that you will have a good time' sounds odd to a native speaker's ear.
    It sounds fine to me. There are a lot of native speakers and a lot of different opinions, so it makes sense to collect a few of them before you decide to accept or reject something. I hope you have a good time is certainly common, but there is nothing strange about I hope that you will have a good time.

    'I hope Kate will pass the exam' sound ok.
    I agree. This does sound okay. It sounds just as normal as I hope that you will have a good time does.
     

    alrosavilla

    Senior Member
    Russian
    There are a lot of native speakers and a lot of different opinions, so it makes sense to collect a few of them before you decide to accept or reject something.
    oh, that explains a lot)) Thanks. To me these phrases are ok, but being non-native is, at times, like having your hands tied behind your back.
     

    analeeh

    Senior Member
    English - UK
    I'm completely bewildered by some of the native responses in this thread. There seems to be a pretty strange misconception that the largely archaic meaning of 'will' as a synonym of 'want' (still reflected in the nouns 'will', 'willpower' etc as well as expressions like 'the wind goes where it will' or 'do as thou wilt') is the current meaning of the future auxiliary 'will'. 'Will' certainly carries nuances that it's difficult for natives to explain (when compared for example to 'going to') but I don't find any of your examples strange and even if I did, it certainly wouldn't be because 'will' has anything to do with volition.

    This sentence is perfectly grammatical and meaningful, despite the explicitly stated absence of desire on the part of the speaker:

    'I really don't want to, but I'll have to go.'

    As far as 'hope' is concerned, it's perhaps more common for it to be followed by simple present, and there may be a very slight nuance between 'I hope you have a good time' and 'I hope you'll have a good time', but the two are more or less interchangeable.
     

    alrosavilla

    Senior Member
    Russian
    I'm completely bewildered by some of the native responses in this thread. There seems to be a pretty strange misconception that the largely archaic meaning of 'will' as a synonym of 'want' (still reflected in the nouns 'will', 'willpower' etc as well as expressions like 'the wind goes where it will' or 'do as thou wilt') is the current meaning of the future auxiliary 'will'. 'Will' certainly carries nuances that it's difficult for natives to explain (when compared for example to 'going to') but I don't find any of your examples strange and even if I did, it certainly wouldn't be because 'will' has anything to do with volition.

    This sentence is perfectly grammatical and meaningful, despite the explicitly stated absence of desire on the part of the speaker:

    'I really don't want to, but I'll have to go.'

    As far as 'hope' is concerned, it's perhaps more common for it to be followed by simple present, and there may be a very slight nuance between 'I hope you have a good time' and 'I hope you'll have a good time', but the two are more or less interchangeable.
    Thanks for your help. Such nuances are important to me.
     

    Roymalika

    Senior Member
    Punjabi
    Hi

    1) I hope they will come back soon.
    2) I hope they come back soon.

    A teacher has said that we normally use the present tense after "I hope", so 2) is correct.
    Is that right?
     

    Mattterhorn

    Senior Member
    Spanish
    Hello,
    After reading all the posts in this thread, I understand that both these sentences are correct, but I’d like a native speaker to confirm:
    a) I hope I will be given a rise this year. I’ve taken on a lot of extra responsibilities.
    b) I hope I am given a rise this year. I’ve taken on a lot of extra responsibilities.

    Thank you!
     

    owlman5

    Senior Member
    English-US
    Hello, Mattterhorn.

    a) I hope I will be given a rise this year. I’ve taken on a lot of extra responsibilities.
    b) I hope I am given a rise this year. I’ve taken on a lot of extra responsibilities.
    These sentences are a little off, but I don't see anything wrong with the tenses that you have used. I would express them this way: (a) I hope that I will* get a raise this year. (b) I hope that I get a raise this year. Or: I hope that they give me a raise this year.

    *Will
    really isn't necessary, but it is possible and it doesn't sound wrong.
     

    Mattterhorn

    Senior Member
    Spanish
    Thanks owlman5, this sentence is taken from an English course book, they might have forced the passive for the sake of grammar…
    I was wondering if a rise and a raise are the same thing…
     
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