I try/will try to see Vieky whenever I go to London.

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pickyx

Senior Member
Chinese
As the title suggests, which one is correct?

1. I will try to see Vieky whenever I go to London.

2. I try to see Vieky whenever I go to London.

I take 2, what is yours?
 
  • DiasporaCobh

    Member
    English, Irish (Gaelic)
    What is interesting here is that you focus on the verb. For me, the use of whenever is at the centre here.
    1. I will try to see Vicky whenever I go to London. - I'm not sure when I will go to London, but whenever I go there, I will try to see Vicky. The future intention is the key here for choosing will future. In isolation, this seems an odd choice for me, but it might be a generational thing - I would prefer when over whenever in this sentence as a stand-alone sentence (whatever that means).

    2. I try to see Vicky whenever I go to London. - I often go to London, and whenever I go there, I try to see Vicky. The "oftenness" is key here to choosing the present simple in both clauses.
     

    velisarius

    Senior Member
    British English (Sussex)
    In case you're wondering, pickyx, "will" in your first sentence wouldn't be read as habitual "will".

    "Will" in the context of your sentence can only be interpreted as indicating the future.
     

    Andygc

    Senior Member
    British English
    In isolation, this seems an odd choice for me, but it might be a generational thing - I would prefer when over whenever in this sentence as a stand-alone sentence
    I don't understand your point.
    "I will try to see Vieky whenever I go to London." On every future occasion that I go to London I will try to see Vieky.
    "I will try to see Vieky when I go to London." On a future occasion that I go to London I will try to see Vieky.
    I don't think we can say one or other sentence is preferable unless we know the intended meaning.
     

    DiasporaCobh

    Member
    English, Irish (Gaelic)
    I don't think we can say one or other sentence is preferable unless we know the intended meaning.[/QUOTE]

    For sure.
    "I will try to see Vicky whenever I go to London" can mean - as you point out - "on every future occasion", but it could also have the meaning "it doesn't matter when I go to London" as in whatever, whoever, etc. Personally, I tend to use "whenever" in this restrictive sense.

    The point I was trying to make (badly) was that to focus only on the use of will or not in the original sentences might result in missing (as I did) the complexities of when/whenever.
     

    DiasporaCobh

    Member
    English, Irish (Gaelic)
    I don't understand your point.
    "I will try to see Vieky whenever I go to London." On every future occasion that I go to London I will try to see Vieky.
    "I will try to see Vieky when I go to London." On a future occasion that I go to London I will try to see Vieky.
    I don't think we can say one or other sentence is preferable unless we know the intended meaning.
    My previous post was in response to Andygc
     

    Andygc

    Senior Member
    British English
    but it could also have the meaning "it doesn't matter when I go to London" as in whatever, whoever, etc
    I'm afraid I really don't understand you. I'm used to people saying "whatever" as a dismissive comment on its own, but I really cannot see how "I will try to see Vieky whenever I go to London" can possibly mean "it doesn't matter when I go to London".
     

    DiasporaCobh

    Member
    English, Irish (Gaelic)
    There is no question of the fact that you will go to London. The only question that remains is when.

    I know I will go to London sometime next year, but I'm not sure when. I will try to visit Vicky whenever I go there.

    There are several ways to look at this problem. Whichever way you choose to look at it, depends on ...
    (To a group of interviewees) Only one of you can get a place on this course. Whoever gets it, will have a great opportunity.

    Is that better?
     

    Andygc

    Senior Member
    British English
    I don't have a problem, and there's only one way to look at "I will try to see Vieky whenever I go to London". It means that on every occasion that I go to London I will try to see Vieky. What I do not understand is why you think there is anything uncertain about trying to see Vieky. When I might go to London and how often I might go to London are uncertain, but that I intend to go to London is not in doubt, and on every occasion that I go there I will try to see Vieky. That's what "whenever" means.
    Personally, I tend to use "whenever" in this restrictive sense.
    What restrictive sense?
    whenever | Definition of whenever in English by Oxford Dictionaries
    CONJUNCTION
    1 At whatever time; on whatever occasion (emphasizing a lack of restriction)
    ‘you can ask for help whenever you need it'
    1.1 Every time that.
    ‘the springs in the armchair creak whenever I change position’
     

    DiasporaCobh

    Member
    English, Irish (Gaelic)
    on every occasion that I go there I will try to see Vieky. That's what "whenever" means.
    My apologies re. "restrictive". Just saw it now - 'unrestrictive' sense is, of course, what I should have typed.

    Not sure why you began your post with 'I don't have a problem. As to my claiming any uncertainty about tying to visit Vieky, I can't see where I've said that. My claim of "whenever" having a meaning of "it doesn't matter when" is supported by the idea that "whenever" isn't only a conjunction and may also serve as an adverb, which is how I read it here. Here come the quotes, the first is from Cambridge Dictionaries. Don't know how to link things yet. Sorry.
    The highlights are mine.
    whenever
    /wɛnˈɛvə/
    conjunction
    1.
    (subordinating) at every or any time that; when: I laugh wheneverI see that

    adverb
    2.
    no matter when: it'll be here, whenever you decide to come for it
    3.
    (informal) at an unknown or unspecified time: I'll take it if it comestoday, tomorrow, or whenever



    Kyle Rawlins (2013) wrote a great paper on the concept of "unconditional conditional sentences". The remainder of my post is from (Un)conditionals, but the whole paper is a great read.
    1. (1) If Alfonso goes to the party, it will be fun. (if-conditional)

    2. (2) Whether or not Alfonso goes to the party, it will be fun.

      (alternative unconditional)

    3. (3) Whoever goes to the party, it will be fun. (constituent unconditional)

    4. (4) No matter who goes to the party, it will be fun. (headed unconditional)
    Before we delve into the relationship between if -conditionals and unconditionals, however, a baseline goal is to simply understand the interpretive properties of uncon- ditionals themselves. One core observation about unconditionals is that they express a certain kind of “not mattering”—an implication of what might be called indifference (adopting terminology from the free choice literature). (Rawlins, 2013: p. 112)
     

    velisarius

    Senior Member
    British English (Sussex)
    We still don't know what exactly pickyx had in mind. I'm not sure what (1) is trying to express. Did you mean the two sentences to have the same meaning, picky?
     

    Andygc

    Senior Member
    British English
    Not sure why you began your post with 'I don't have a problem
    There are several ways to look at this problem.
    :)
    Yes, the first adverbial meaning gives the same meaning to the sentence, so it doesn't matter if you decide to call it a conjunction or an adverb. "No matter when I go to London" and "on whatever occasion I go to London" provide the same meaning. The second adverbial meaning can't apply here - that's the stand-alone meaning which similarly provides the irritating teenager's "Whatever"

    There's a possibility that we might actually agree what the two sentences in the OP mean.
     
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