I visited Beijing two years ago.

kyotan

Senior Member
Japanese 標準語
大家好!

谷歌把“ I visited Beijing two years ago.” 翻译成 “两年前我访问了北京。 ”

Can I also say "我两年前访问了北京。 "?

If I can say both, which sounds better?

If these sentences sound strange, could you tell me how you would say it?

I'm wondering this, because my textbook tells me that 状语 such as 明天 usually comes before a verb.

Thank you!
 
  • nightdragon

    Senior Member
    Chinese-China
    Both are OK, no difference

    “时间状语” can be before a verb or subject

    昨天我买了件衣服:tick:
    昨天买了件衣服:tick:
    明天我要去买衣服:tick:
    明天要去买衣服:tick:

    “地点状语” is usually before a verb

    John在图书馆看书:tick:
    在图书馆John看书:cross:
     
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    Skatinginbc

    Senior Member
    Mandarin 國語
    谷歌把“ I visited Beijing two years ago.” 翻译成 “两年前我访问了北京。”
    I just want to point out that 我訪問了北京 is correct to some native speakers (Mainlanders, I guess) but wrong to others (e.g., me :D). 國語辭典 defines 訪問 as "call on" 拜訪看望 (e.g., visit friends 訪問朋友) and "interview" 詢問, and it does not include the meaning of "go sightseeing" 观光游历 (e.g., 訪問英国 "visit the UK"), which is however included in some Mainland-oriented dictionaries (e.g., http://www.zdic.net/c/f/2a/65768.htm). If I have to put 訪問 and 地點 together, I would usually say 到/去 + 地點 + 訪問 (e.g., 《西遊記》:到長安城內, 訪問一番; 两年前我去北京訪問).
     

    twinklestar

    Senior Member
    Chinese
    1.

    -两年前我访问了北京 (correct); (It very slightly underlines it was "two years ago" when you paid Beijing a visit if you put the adverbial of time in the head of a sentence.)

    -我两年前访问了北京 (correct);

    2. Generally "访问“ is applied to heavyweights, especially politicans, who go to someplace for important issues i.e. meeting with other important people; or some important people's visits

    中国总理几年前访问过日本。(Chinese Premier was a high rank politican, so it is appropriate to use "访问“ very formal.)

    我两年前去过日本。(for ordinary people, generally I would use "去“, i.e. for tourist purpose)

    美津容的社长来我司访问 (The GM of Mizuno visited our company. The GM was an important customer, so you can use 访问“ for an formal occasion. )
     

    Skatinginbc

    Senior Member
    Mandarin 國語
    Generally "访问“ is applied to heavyweights...中国总理几年前访问过日本...
    The word "Japan" in "Japan has agreed to end commercial whaling" does not mean a place, which is inanimate and has neither a mouth nor a tongue to utter any agreement. Rather, it refers to an organization (e.g., government, nation), which is sometimes treated as a person linguistically (擬人 personification) and legally (法人 juridical person). Likewise, the word 日本 in 中国总理几年前访问过日本 refers to a 國際法人, that is, Japan the nation (not Japan the place). Thus technically it is not a true example of 訪問+地點.
     

    twinklestar

    Senior Member
    Chinese
    @Skatinginbc:

    With all due respect, I beg to different.

    First, the analogy you drew to illustrate about访问+地点 is not tecnically true looks plausible to me. Honestly I don't understand what you were exactly talking about.

    Second, languages do not depend on "techically or not technically" but how native speakers actually apply. Spatula is supposed to TECHNICALLY pronounced as "spat-you-luh", but most Brits pronounce as spa-tchuh-luh... It lends weight to lanuage which depends on the practice mostly instead of technology. (Human languages=/= programme aka computer language)

    Third, 访问日本(访问+地名)etc. the similiar expressions are wildly used in the spoken Chinese in China, as well as the reports in the all kinds of Chinese media outlets from the reports of CCTV-the most prestigous state TV , People's Daily the prestigous Chinese state-owned newspaper, all kinds of Web portals from Sina, 163. com, even Foreign Ministry spokesman used it in a press conference as below:

    《 人民日报 》( 2009年11月18日 03 版)
      本报北京11月17日电 (记者丁大伟)外交部发言人秦刚17日在例行记者会上宣布:应日本外相冈田克也邀请,外交部长杨洁篪将于11月19日至22日访问日本,双方将就中日关系及共同关心的国际和地区问题交换意见。


    In short, I am afraid it might be less helpful to argue what technically or not to the OP, who is at the entry level of Chinese, instead of focusing on the practice...

    My two cents!
     
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    retrogradedwithwind

    Senior Member
    Chinese
    Skat 是说,访问的宾语是人,访问日本,其中的日本,不是地名,而是代表政府,即访问日本=访问日本政府。

    技术层面,访的可以是地方(也可以是人),问的只能是人。所以访问的宾语应该是人。
    不过语言是活的.....
     

    twinklestar

    Senior Member
    Chinese
    访问是a set phrase which doesn't equal to 1+1 in contemporary Chinese.

    E.g. 这是我的妻子 =This is my wife =/= This is my wife and son, though 妻子=妻+子 (in archiac Chinese) We don't reverse the clock in life.

    It has nothing to do with techncially or not.

    What do you guys think about 吃饭? 吃+饭 ? (eat+rice?) It is totally weirld if you try to contrue the word like that in contemporary Chinese. Likewise, how many native speakers of English would understand the language of Geoffrey Chaucer's era?

    吃饭=have a meal (meal including all kinds of food, i.e. noodle, vegetable, meat, fish, wine, rice,) =/=吃(eat)+米饭(rice excluding vegetable, meat etc.)

    Would anyone try to argue 吃饭 is technically incorrect if you want to have a meal?

    Note: OP is just at entry level of Chinese, instead of studying at archaic Chinese. Is it anything helpful or might make the OP confused? I am not pedantic.

    No offence!
     
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    retrogradedwithwind

    Senior Member
    Chinese
    《说文》,饭,食也。食,《說文》一米也。《玉篇》飯食。《增韻》殽饌也。所以饭的本义不是大米饭。吃饭现在有两个意思,吃饭和吃米饭,都在用。

    妻子的确有转义,估计是因为子可以做后缀吧。

    我不想争这个,这不是我的菜......问个好。
     

    twinklestar

    Senior Member
    Chinese
    There should be a benchmark for any debate. Are we talking about contemporary or achaic Chinese?

    饭can serve both verb and noun, but it is after 吃 and serves as noun. The basic meaning for 饭: is rice.“吃饭”叫动宾型的名词词组。

    老板,再给我三碗饭? Will any waiters possibly misunderstand and service vegetable?


    这是我的姐妹王小玲=This is my female friend Wang Xialing. (姐妹=female pal =/=姐older sister+妹younger sister)

    我没有要求你来争什么,请自便。也同问好!

    P.S. 我不是看不懂他的话,多劳你的英汉翻译。那是婉转语。大家讨论的方向要有实际的意义,要能帮助别人解决问题,又不是在考查甲古文,那也不是我的强项。

    在中国,哪个人会去挑“访问日本‘’这个词组所谓的刺?那些知名媒体的新闻记者要么是中文专业毕业或新闻专业,和外交部发言人,汉语表达的语言能力起码超过普通的大众吧?

    Skat 是说,访问的宾语是人,访问日本,其中的日本,不是地名,而是代表政府,即访问日本=访问日本政府。

    ...
    访问日本=/=访问日本政府

    很多政要到外国访问,也包括参观名胜古迹,到大学演讲,观摩知名企业。这些和政府没有关系。
     
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    brofeelgood

    Senior Member
    English, 中文
    I just can't get my head around "两年前我访问了北京" when it's used in the context of a casual visit by a tourist.

    If someone (e.g. Barack Obama) were referring to an official state visit to Beijing, then yes it sounds right. Otherwise, I'd stick to 去了/去过/到过.
     

    Skatinginbc

    Senior Member
    Mandarin 國語
    I'm not trying to debate. I'm simply trying to understand how 访问 is used in the Mainland and hope to get an example of 訪問+地點 in which 地點 refers to an inanimate location, not an animate organization. Are the following sentences correct?

    中国总理親身访问了世界第一高峰聖母峰.
    我親身访问了世界第一高峰聖母峰.
    李克强几年前访问过北極凍原.
    我几年前访问过北極凍原.

    Of course, those sentences can be rewritten as such: 親身「访问」了世界第一高峰, 几年前「访问」过北極凍原), but that's not my point. What I'm trying to figure out is whether the subject or the object matters.
     

    twinklestar

    Senior Member
    Chinese
    I don't think my illustration has any problem. You'll have to take time to read my words again, before you ask question.

    2. Generally "访问“ is applied to heavyweights, especially politicans, who go to someplace for important issues i.e. meeting with other important people; or some important people's visits
     

    Skatinginbc

    Senior Member
    Mandarin 國語
    Generally "访问“ is applied to heavyweights, especially politicans, who go to someplace for important issues i.e. meeting with other important people; or some important people's visits
    According to your explanation, 中国总理親身访问了世界第一高峰聖母峰 and 李克强几年前访问过北極凍原 should be correct, and I simply would like to confirm if they are indeed correct. No offense meant.
     

    twinklestar

    Senior Member
    Chinese
    2. Generally "访问“ is applied to heavyweights, especially politicans, who go to someplace for important issues i.e. meeting with other important people; or some important people's visits
    Did you read my words?--politican for important iusses

    Did you read my sentences which I used to illustrate 访问 is applied?

    Please try to find some practical sentences and take a more pragmatic attitude when you try to illstrate your points. Premiers of China are/were hardly likely to visit any mount;they are too busy.

    我两年前去过日本。(for ordinary people, generally I would use "去“, i.e.for tourist purpose
    You don't offend me at all, but you fail to understand...Read again my words I highlighted in red for your attenion instead of ignoring them. Let me know if you have any other questions, before you use my words to draw your wrong conclusion.
     
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    Skatinginbc

    Senior Member
    Mandarin 國語
    Did you read my words?--politican for important iusses
    I was confused by the word "or" in your explanation. Now that you further clarified it, it appears to me that "go to someplace for important issues i.e. meeting with other important people" is an obligatory part of your definition. It leads me to wonder if the object does matter. "Verbal exchange with other people" (i.e., 问) seems to be a vital part of the definition, so the object should be a person or place where one can meet other people to discuss what you called "important issues".
    访问日本=/=访问日本政府
    Actually I think 访问日本=访问日本这个国家. 国家 in the eye of the international laws is a 國際法人 (在國際上有能力享權利、盡義務的主體). Linguistically speaking, 国家 is often personified (e.g., "her" as a pronoun for a country).
     
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    twinklestar

    Senior Member
    Chinese
    Verbal exchange with other people" (i.e., 问) seems to be a vital part of the definition, so the object should be a person or place where one will meet other people to discuss what you called "important issues".
    I think I have illustrated in comtemporary Chinese many prhases cannot be explained word by word at its face value, 妻子=/=妻+子=wife

    What do you think about a politican's state visit? Does it definitely exclude any tourist purpose besides meeting people?
     
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    Skatinginbc

    Senior Member
    Mandarin 國語
    What do you think about a politican's state visit? Does it definitely exclude any tourist purpose besides meeting people?
    I'm trying to figure out if "meeting people" is obligatory while "touring" is optional. If "meeting people" is optional, then 中国总理親身访问了世界第一高峰聖母峰 and 李克强几年前访问过北極凍原 should be correct sentences.
     
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    twinklestar

    Senior Member
    Chinese
    I'm trying to figure out if "meeting people" is obligatory while "touring" is optional. If "meeting people" is optional, then 中国总理親身访问了世界第一高峰聖母峰 and 李克强几年前访问过北極凍原 should be correct sentences.
    我两年前去过日本。(for ordinary people, generally I would use "去“, i.e.for tourist purpose

    If Li goes there for touring without underlining his official capacity of being a Premier, it is appropriate to use 去
     
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    Skatinginbc

    Senior Member
    Mandarin 國語
    Canada's Prime Minister Stephen Harper visited the Arctic desert in the summer of 2010.
    Is it acceptable to say 2010年夏天, 加拿大總理哈珀訪問了北極沙漠? Or should it be 2010年夏天, 加拿大總理哈珀至北極沙漠巡視?
     

    twinklestar

    Senior Member
    Chinese
    Canada's Prime Minister Stephen Harper visited the Arctic desert in the summer of 2010.
    Is it acceptable to say 2010年夏天, 加拿大總理哈珀訪問了北極沙漠? Or should it be 2010年夏天, 加拿大總理哈珀至北極沙漠巡視?
    北极沙漠有北加拿大人吧?

    哈珀政府去年提出,维护加拿大在北极地区领土主权是其长期优先战略。哈珀已宣布建造6艘破冰船在当地巡逻,并新建一个深水港和一个作战指挥中心。


    麻烦换一个没有人的地方来论证一个人和他身份无关来说明“访问”。
     

    Skatinginbc

    Senior Member
    Mandarin 國語
    The prime minister of Canada has visited the Arctic once a year to demonstrate Canada's sovereignty over the Arctic. The main purpose of his annual visit is to show presence (just being there). Interviewing military and research personnel is secondary or extra. And it is not a sightseeing tour (Not much to see in the land of ice). His visit qualifies your definition of 访问: (1) "applied to heavyweights, especially politicans", (2) "go to someplace for important issues" (in this case, Canada's sovereignty claim), and (3) some important people's visits (Canada's prime minister is a VIP). The only part that it may lack is "meeting with other important people", which is secondary in this case. Given this context, is it still correct to use 访问 as in 加拿大總理哈珀訪問了北極沙漠, wherein talking to certain people is not the primary purpose?
     
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    alexmaowei

    New Member
    汉语(Some Chinese Dialect)
    ^一般来说,“访问”指的是一国的领导人去他国进行外交活动。加拿大总理哈珀 到访/造访/考察/视察 了北极沙漠,是更恰当的说法。
     
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    Skatinginbc

    Senior Member
    Mandarin 國語
    Then I don't see a difference in the usage of 访问 between Taiwan Mandarin and Mainland Mandarin, and I'm therefore puzzled by the "go sightseeing" definition given by 汉典. As far as I know, 访问 + 人 or 人组成的组织团体 (e.g., 家庭, 学校, 公司, 国家, 政府, 政党, 联盟, etc.). Thus we have: 美津容的社长昨天访问本公司, 中国总理几年前访问过日本(国家), and 奥巴马访问北京(北京中国领导人员), The primary purpose of 访问 is to engage conversation with certain people; touring, if included in the schedule, is secondary or extra. My interpretation is strengthened by the oddness of such expressions as *訪問北極沙漠 and *访问聖母峰. 「訪」從「言」, 「問」從「口」, 「訪問」的重點是人與人之間的交流會談或親善友好的活動.

    Back to the original topic: I would normally interpret "I visited Beijing two years ago" as 两年前我去过北京. It may also be translated as 两年前我去北京參觀 (visit = go to see), 两年前我去北京考察 (visit = go to a place for the purpose of inspecting or examining), and so forth, depending on the context.
     
    [...]and I'm therefore puzzled by the "go sightseeing" definition given by 汉典. As far as I know, 访问 + 人 or 人组成的组织团体 (e.g., 家庭, 学校, 公司, 国家, 政府, 政党, 联盟, etc.).
    The content of 汉典 is collected from the internet and some might be generated by computer programs(!) thus contains much contradictory information and should not be counted as a reliable source.
     

    MoonRiver&Me

    New Member
    Chinese
    大家好!

    谷歌把“ I visited Beijing two years ago.” 翻译成 “两年前我访问了北京。 ”

    Can I also say "我两年前访问了北京。 "?
    There is a slight difference there.

    两年前我访问了北京 emphasizes the time 两年前, 我两年前访问了北京, emphasizes 我,just like the difference between "two years ago I visited BJ", and I visited BJ two years ago.
     
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