I wanna say <to you> that you/they are wrong

yakor

Senior Member
Russian
Hello.
If one wants to transfer information by words what is correct to say?
-I wanna say that you are wrong.
-I wanna say to you that you are wrong
-I wanna say that they are wrong.
Is it necessary to use the indirect object "you" or "they" in these cases?
 
  • se16teddy

    Senior Member
    English - England
    All these sentences are grammatically correct. You can use the optional objects if you want to emphasize or clarify that element of the sentence.

    They are all marked as "chatspeak": they contain spellings used in informal conversations, and not used when one is aiming for standard literate writing.
     
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    yakor

    Senior Member
    Russian
    (forms of spelling used in informal conversations, and not used when one is trying to impress with one's erudition.)
    I know about "chatspeak". When one is "chatting" there could be many not grammatical words, saying soft.
    But if you want to impress the others with your erudition, what would you say?
    [Response to deleted post removed. DonnyB - moderator]
     
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    yakor

    Senior Member
    Russian
    I don't agree with this. All language has grammar, whether or not that grammar conforms to a national or international standard. I don't think we are suppose to revise text for you in this forum.
    Which text do you mean? I ask about using one single phrase.
    And yes, in the different forums, chattings there are a lot of ungrammatical words. Your post says about other things. ( All language has ...grammar) but not all who write are grammatically savvy. Sometimes it seems that they have no education at all.
     
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    DonnyB

    Sixties Mod
    English UK Southern Standard English
    Moderator note:

    Please bear in mind that the topic of this thread is the question:
    Is it necessary to use the indirect object "you" or "they" in these cases?
    Thanks. DonnyB - moderator.
     

    Hermione Golightly

    Senior Member
    British English
    There's no need to use 'to you' with say when talking to the person concerned.
    '' I want to say that you are wrong.''
    Of course you need to use 'they/he/she' if you are talking about third parties, or indeed yourself.
    ''I want to say that is/are wrong'' would be unintelligible.
     

    yakor

    Senior Member
    Russian
    There's no need to use 'to you' with say when talking to the person concerned.
    '' I want to say that you are wrong.''
    -I just want to say to you that she is wrong.
    2)-I just want to say she is wrong.
    Are both correct, or need I use in 2) "to+indirect object"?
    Also, could one say using the direct speech
    I just want to say "You are wrong"?
    Is any need to use the indirect object here? (Or is it optional?)
     

    lingobingo

    Senior Member
    English - England
    If you feel the need to to specify who you’re talking to (though I expect they already know that!), you’d do better to use tell instead of say. But you don’t need to add the indirect object with say, and if you do add it, you need to use a preposition (say to you/him/us etc.).

    I just want to tell you that she is wrong. :thumbsup:
    I just want to say to you that she is wrong. :thumbsdown:
    I just want to say that she is wrong. :thumbsup:
    I can see no reason to express this as direct speech.
     

    yakor

    Senior Member
    Russian
    There's no need to use 'to you' with say when talking to the person concerned.
    '' I want to say that you are wrong.''
    Of course you need to use 'they/he/she' if you are talking about third parties, or indeed yourself.
    ''I want to say that is/are wrong'' would be unintelligible.
    Do you mean
    -I want to say to her you are wrong.
    -I want to say to her she is wrong.
    But you don’t need to add the indirect object with say, and if you do add it, you need to use a preposition (say to you/him/us etc.).

    I just want to tell you that she is wrong. :thumbsup:
    I just want to say to you that she is wrong. :thumbsdown:
    I just want to say that she is wrong. :thumbsup:
    I can see no reason to express this as direct speech.
    Could one say "I just want to say she is wrong"?("that" is omitted)
    -I want to say to her you are wrong.(Or I want to say that you are wrong to her)
    -I want to say to her she is wrong.
     

    lingobingo

    Senior Member
    English - England
    You can use any unnecessarily long combination you choose, depending on what information you want to convey. But, as I said above, it would make more sense to use the word tell.

    And if you put that “to her” at the end of the sentence, you introduce ambiguity.
     

    Jektor

    Senior Member
    English (UK)
    - I wanna want to say (that) you are wrong. :tick:
    - I wanna want to say (to you) (that) you are wrong :tick:
    - I wanna want to say (that) they are wrong. :tick:
    The words in brackets can be added for emphasis.
    The basic text outside the brackets is acceptable English.
    Note that "wanna" is not standard English. Non-native speakers should avoid using it.
    .
     

    yakor

    Senior Member
    Russian
    No.
    If you are talking to someone, you don't need to say 'I want to say to you . . . '.
    It is what I get. But if I say to you that want to say to her that she/you is/are wrong?
    -I want to say to her you are wrong.
    -I want to say to her she is wrong.
    Note that "wanna" is not standard English. Non-native speakers should avoid using it.
    .
    Thanks for your clear answer.
    Yes, "wanna" is a bonus only for the native speakers.:rolleyes:
     

    heypresto

    Senior Member
    English - England
    I want to say to her you are wrong.
    I want to say to her she is wrong.
    This is getting complicated. Let's simplify it by giving these people names.

    Let's suppose you are talking to John, and that 'she' is Alice.

    I want to say to her you are wrong. Here you are telling John that you want to tell Alice that that he (John) is wrong.

    I want to say to her she is wrong. Here you are telling John that you want to tell Alice that she (Alice) is wrong.
     

    heypresto

    Senior Member
    English - England
    You originally asked about "I wanna say to you that you are wrong "

    You were told by Hermione Golightly "There's no need to use 'to you' with say when talking to the person concerned."

    You then asked:
    Do you mean
    -I want to say to her you are wrong.
    -I want to say to her she is wrong.
    Then I said No. I wanted to clarify that that's not what was meant, and explained "If you are talking to someone, you don't need to say 'I want to say to you . . . '.

    You said you understood this, but now you've changed things again. I'm confused. I think I'll bow out here.
     

    yakor

    Senior Member
    Russian
    You originally asked about "I wanna say to you that you are wrong "
    Yes, and what?

    You were told by Hermione Golightly "There's no need to use 'to you' with say when talking to the person concerned."
    Yes, and where I use "to you" after it was said "not to use"


    Then I said No. I wanted to clarify that that's not what was meant, and explained "If you are talking to someone, you don't need to say 'I want to say to you . . . '.
    Sorry, you say the same twice. For what?
     

    yakor

    Senior Member
    Russian
    Because you didn't appear to have understood what you were being told. :eek::eek:
    Please, which my post make you sure that I didn't understand what I'm being told? Which one? this?---->-I want to tell you, John, (that) I want to say to Alice you are wrong.
    -I want to say to her you are wrong. (I have said it to you)
    -I want to say to her she is wrong. (I have said it to you)
    (1)tell always requires the indirect object.
    (2) I don't use "to you" after "want to say".
    -I want to say you are wrong.
    And where am I wrong here and not understanding something there?
     

    yakor

    Senior Member
    Russian
    I just want to tell you that she is wrong. :thumbsup:
    I just want to say to you that she is wrong. :thumbsdown:
    I can see no reason to express this as direct speech.
    One feels the need to specify who one is talking to. So
    -I just want to tell you you are wrong. (OK?)
     
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    Chleba2x

    Member
    Czech (Prague)
    Ones feels the need to specify who one is talking to. So
    -I just want to tell you you are wrong. (OK?)
    If you really have the need to specify it, then I think this sentence is correct.

    EDIT: Actually, I guess this is what you are looking for. You would want to say either
    I just want to tell you you are wrong. (if you want to specify who you're talking to)
    or
    I just want to say you are wrong. (if you don't have the need to specify who you're talking to - note that say to you is not used and it shouldn't be)
    Both of them carry the same meaning. I am quite sure of this, but let's see what the natural speakers have got to say.
     
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    lingobingo

    Senior Member
    English - England
    One feels the need to specify who one is talking to. So
    -I just want to tell you you are wrong. (OK?)
    Well, “one” doesn’t, necessarily, when talking face to face. It’s pretty obvious.

    But yes, that sentence is fine. You seem to be asking the same thing over and over again.
     

    lingobingo

    Senior Member
    English - England
    OK. Yes, it’s really a contraction of “tell you [that] you are wrong”, but we nearly always leave out the conjunction. It sounds perfectly natural. The same two words quite often fall together in English. But I expect you already know that that is the case!
     

    Chleba2x

    Member
    Czech (Prague)
    Why should I note it?
    Because it's important to remember that we don't use such a thing as "say to you". As mentioned many times before.
    No, I just want to be sure. (you you) seemed to me no very good.
    The sentence as you wrote it (I just want to tell you you are wrong.) is OK and can be used. But sentence I just want to tell you that you are wrong is also correct and I would prefer the latter one over the first. Both are correct.
     

    Chleba2x

    Member
    Czech (Prague)
    "say to you" wrong.
    "Come on" she said to him.
    "Come on" she tell him.
    Please, re-read the previous answers you got on this matter. Also, this should be helpful enough:
    There are some useful comments about how to use "say" and "tell" in these Word Ref pages:
    wordreference.com - english usage - say
    wordreference.com - english usage - tell
    And you cannot use "tell" when referring to "she". She told him or She tells him, but She tell him does not make sense.
     
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