I was afraid that she would not go.

ilvecchio

Senior Member
American English
I was afraid that she would not go. Avevo paura che lei non ci andasse. (OR) Avevo paura che lei non ci andrebbe. I think it should be subjunctive, but what do I know? Thanks.
 
  • Nerino

    Senior Member
    Italian
    I was afraid that she would not go. Avevo paura che lei non ci andasse. (OR) Avevo paura che lei non ci andrebbe. I think it should be subjunctive, but what do I know? Thanks.
    That is the correct one, also "temevo che non (ci) andasse/ che non (ci) sarebbe andata". Bye! :)
     

    Curandera

    Senior Member
    Italian
    Hi there,

    Temevo/avevo paura che non ci andasse = correct
    Temevo/avevo paura che non ci sarebbe andata = correct

    Temevo/avevo paura che non ci andrebbe = wrong!
     

    furs

    Senior Member
    Italian
    Which goes to say that the concept of 'future in the past' is rendered through use of subjunctive mode in Italian.
     

    Akire72

    Senior Member
    Italian - Italy
    Not so fast, Furs!!! not quite...

    Hi there,

    Temevo/avevo paura che non ci andasse = correct
    Temevo/avevo paura che non ci sarebbe andata = correct :tick: THIS IS NOT SUBJUNCTIVE, FURS. IT IS PAST CONDITIONAL, SO YOUR CONCLUSION DOES NOT FIT 100%.

    Temevo/avevo paura che non ci andrebbe = wrong!
     

    furs

    Senior Member
    Italian
    I would submit that the sentence 'Temevo/avevo paura che non ci sarebbe andata' does not exactly express the idea of 'future in the past' -- it seems something else to me.
     

    Einstein

    Senior Member
    UK, English
    Which goes to say that the concept of 'future in the past' is rendered through the use of the subjunctive mood in Italian.
    ... or of the past conditional.
    Here we have the subjunctive because of the fear (and isn't it better in this case?), but more in general, for example in indirect speech, I'd say the past conditional is the normal form.
     

    furs

    Senior Member
    Italian
    Einstein, excuse me (and pardon the OT) but 'mood' can be used in alternative to 'mode' as far as I know (and about 171,000 google hits seem to be in agreement).
     

    Akire72

    Senior Member
    Italian - Italy
    Disse che non ci sarebbe andata:tick:
    Disse che non ci andasse :cross:

    Pensavo che non ci sarebbe andata:tick:
    Pensavo che non ci andasse:tick:

    I think Einstein is right. For indirect speech you use the past conditional.

    Only, Einstein, the subjunctive MOOD, does not exist, I'm afraid. It's the subjunctive MODE, Furs is right.
     

    Curandera

    Senior Member
    Italian
    @Akire72: correct!

    Dico che vengo/verrò
    I say I will come.

    Dissi che sarei venuto
    I said I would come.

    Dissi che sarei venuto se fossi stato in città
    I said I would have come if I had been in town.

    Penso che venga/verrà
    I think he will come

    Pensavo che venisse/sarebbe venuto
    I didn't think he would come
     

    Einstein

    Senior Member
    UK, English
    Furs and akire, I grew up with the subjunctive mood and it was written in all my language text-books; I never saw mode used in this sense. A lot of people seem to agree with me:
    Subjunctive mood: 18,900 Google hits
    Subjunctive mode: 1,390 Google hits

    The word mode is widely used, particularly in IT but also elsewhere. However, in grammar the spelling is mood (and the pronunciation is different).

    I'd say that in the original sentence there are two concepts: fear and future in the past. In English it's the future in the past that determines the verb form, while in Italian the fear is important grammatically, so also the subjunctive is used.
    -----------------
    PS For my mood/mode research I actually used "Tiscali search"; I see that Google gives more results for both forms but "subjunctive mood" still has the vast majority.

    PPS Also Sansoni gives, as a translation of "modo":
    10 (Gramm) mood: modo congiuntivo subjunctive mood, subjunctive; modo imperativo imperative mood, imperative.
     
    Last edited:

    Akire72

    Senior Member
    Italian - Italy
    Furs and akire, I grew up with the subjunctive mood and it was written in all my language text-books; I never saw mode used in this sense. A lot of people seem to agree with me:
    Subjunctive mood: 18,900 Google hits
    Subjunctive mode: 1,390 Google hits

    The word mode is widely used, particularly in IT but also elsewhere. However, in grammar the spelling is mood (and the pronunciation is different).
    :eek: It's true!!!!

    Well, you live you learn!!! Thanks, Einstein!!!
     

    Akire72

    Senior Member
    Italian - Italy
    I'd say that in the original sentence there are two concepts: fear and future in the past. In English it's the future in the past that determines the verb form, while in Italian the fear is important grammatically, so also the subjunctive is used.
    In my opinion, it's rather the conjucture that decides whether it's subjunctive or conditional. I mean, if it's something that you suppose/think/fear/believe etc. (all verbs that imply guessing) then you can also use subjunctive, otherwise, if it's reported speech, it has to be conditional.
     

    Einstein

    Senior Member
    UK, English
    In my opinion, it's rather the conjucture that decides whether it's subjunctive or conditional. I mean, if it's something that you suppose/think/fear/believe etc. (all verbs that imply guessing) then you can also use subjunctive, otherwise, if it's reported speech, it has to be conditional.
    I think we're saying the same thing, basically. "Future in the past", at least in English, doesn't necessarily imply explicit reported speech. For example:
    When I was 16 years old, something happened that would change my life (that was to change my life).
    Quando avevo 16 anni, accadde una cosa che mi avrebbe cambiato la vita.

    It's future in the past because it refers to a change in the future with respect to when I was 16 years old.
     

    Akire72

    Senior Member
    Italian - Italy
    As I suspected, here it says that "mood" is an alteration of "mode".;)

    It's us corrupting the original Latin again!:D

    So, basically you can say it both ways. I feel relieved as I had never heard mood for verbs, always mode (well, I don't know if they are both pronunced the same way...).
    Thanks LC

    And Einstein. I agree, we're probably saying the same thing. But I don't agree with this
    in Italian the fear is important grammatically, so also the subjunctive is used
    . Rather than the fear, I think it's the guess, the feeling.
     

    Einstein

    Senior Member
    UK, English
    So, basically you can say it both ways. I feel relieved as I had never heard mood for verbs, always mode (well, I don't know if they are both pronounced the same way...).
    Thanks LC
    The spelling mood remains in a strong majority in the grammatical context, so I was surprised that you'd never seen it (but don't tell me it doesn't exist!:mad:). However, I see that mode is used by a number of authoritative sources. That's something I didn't know. In meaning, this mood is nearer to mode than mood as used in other contexts, so LC is probably right that it's changed over time.

    Rather than the fear, I think it's the guess, the feeling.
    Yes, OK, I wasn't saying fear was a case alone requiring a special form.
     

    Akire72

    Senior Member
    Italian - Italy
    Sorry, Einstein, but I really WAS convinced that it didn't exist. I had never heard of it, ever! Now I know. As I said: you live, you learn! :) And this forum is great to learn!
     
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