I would like that you came???

Tadeo

Senior Member
Español (México)
First of all I apologize for using a little spanish in this post, but i think that doing so It will be easier for you to understand why is this so confusing to me.

I'm posting in the English Only forum cause I really need an answer from native speakers

My question is:

From the following options, wich is the best in every case and why are the others wrong or why is your option the best one???


A)My options:
1) I would like that you didn't come
2) I would like you not to come
3) I would like that you don't come.



B)My options:
1)I would like that you to came.
2)I would like yo to came
3) I would like you to come.

So my general question is when using the expression I would like......
In wich tense sholud the next verb be???
I mean: I would like that you tried or I would like you to try.

One more thing:
a) I would like that you didn't come/ Me gustaría que no vinieras
b)I would like that you don't come./ Me gustaría que no vengas

a)I would like that you to came./Me gustaría que vinieras
b)I would like you to come./ Me gustaría que vengas

In spanish, vinieras or vengas have a similar meaning, what about English??? I don't get the diference between using one or the other???
Wich one would be more appropiate????

Thanks for your help.
__________________
Nana' u lee an Tenekchic
 
  • Dimcl

    Senior Member
    Canadian English
    First of all I apologize for using a little spanish in this post, but i think that doing so It will be easier for you to understand why is this so confusing to me.

    I'm posting in the English Only forum cause I really need an answer from native speakers

    My question is:

    From the following options, wich is the best in every case and why are the others wrong or why is your option the best one???


    A)My options:
    1) I would like that you didn't come
    2) I would like you not to come
    3) I would like that you don't come.

    None of the above work because of your use of the word "like". I don't know the grammatical rules for this but "like" is a positive word that doesn't work with the negative "didn't/not/don't". It would be the same as saying "I like that you don't drive because you're a bad driver". The word I would use is "prefer" ie. "I prefer that you don't come".

    B)My options:
    1)I would like that you to came.
    2)I would like yo to came
    3) I would like you to come.

    No. 3 is the correct sentence - "came" is past tense so No. 1 and No. 2 would not work.

    So my general question is when using the expression I would like......
    In wich tense sholud the next verb be???
    I mean: I would like that you tried or I would like you to try.

    "I would like" is future tense... "I would like you to try."
    "I like" is present tense... "I like you"


    One more thing:
    a) I would like that you didn't come/ Me gustaría que no vinieras
    b)I would like that you don't come./ Me gustaría que no vengas

    Neither of the above will work for the reasons given previously.


    a)I would like that you to came./Me gustaría que vinieras
    b)I would like you to come./ Me gustaría que vengas

    b) is the correct sentence

    In spanish, vinieras or vengas have a similar meaning, what about English??? I don't get the diference between using one or the other???
    Wich one would be more appropiate????

    I don't speak Spanish so cannot answer your final questions.

    Thanks for your help.
    __________________
    Nana' u lee an Tenekchic
     

    ibizadjservice

    Member
    English from USA
    A)My options:
    1) I would like that you didn't come
    2) I would like you not to come
    3) I would like that you don't come.

    I would say " I prefer you didn't come" This is used because it is a hypothetical. I means the future/present but is expressed in the past.



    a)I would like that you to came./Me gustaría que vinieras
    b)I would like you to come./ Me gustaría que vengas

    b) is the correct sentence

    In spanish, vinieras or vengas have a similar meaning, what about English??? I don't get the diference between using one or the other???
    Wich one would be more appropiate????

    You can not use sentence A; only sentence B. Or you could say:

    I would prefer you didn't come.
    I would like you to come.

    Again, the small difference in the meaning of the usage depends on the probability of the action taking place, just like the difference between VENGAS and VINIERAS in the Spanish usage.
     

    Dimcl

    Senior Member
    Canadian English
    I would say " I prefer you didn't come" This is used because it is a hypothetical. I means the future/present but is expressed in the past.

    I believe that the correct way is to say "I prefer that you don't (do not) come". "I prefer that you didn't (did not) come" is past tense and doesn't work.
     

    ibizadjservice

    Member
    English from USA
    The past tense is correct here, and has a present/future tense meaning.

    This is related to the probability of the situation, not when the action happens.

    Simple example: If I were you....no past tense meaning....it is not possible to be someone else, therefore the past is used. And the meaning is in the present tense.
     

    maxiogee

    Banned
    English
    A)My options:
    1) I would like that you didn't come
    2) I would like you not to come
    3) I would like that you don't come.

    I don't know what you really wish to convey, but I had to send a very similar message to someone late last year. The best wording I could come up with, to take the focus of the message from people and onto reasons was…

    Having discussed our Christmas arrangements Teresa, Adam and
    I need to tell you that in the interest of harmony in both our homes
    we feel it would be best if you don't visit us this Christmas.


    As you can imagine, this was not an easy message to send to anyone, let alone a family member, as in this case, but the situation unfortunately required it and there was harmony in our home at least. I cannot speak for the home of the recipient.
     

    elroy

    Imperfect mod
    US English, Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Having discussed our Christmas arrangements Teresa, Adam and
    I need to tell you that in the interest of harmony in both our homes
    we feel it would be best if you don't visit us this Christmas.
    For some reason, I'd prefer "didn't" to "don't."
     

    Dimcl

    Senior Member
    Canadian English
    For some reason, I'd prefer "didn't" to "don't."

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by maxiogee
    Having discussed our Christmas arrangements Teresa, Adam and
    I need to tell you that in the interest of harmony in both our homes
    we feel it would be best if you don't visit us this Christmas.

    For some reason, I'd prefer "didn't" to "don't."

    I cannot quote the chapter and verse regarding grammar but "...we feel it would be best if you didn't visit us this Christmas" doesn't sound right. "...did not visit us this Christmas" is past tense and "do not"is present/future tense which I feel is correct in this context. This discussion has come up elsewhere and I'm still not comfortable with it. I'd love to hear from one of our moderators on this subject.
     

    elroy

    Imperfect mod
    US English, Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    "Didn't" in "if you didn't visit us this Christmas" is the past subjunctive, which does not have anything to do with the past time at all. After the conjunction "if," it refers to a hypothetical situation that actually refers to the present or the future. It is used when there is a "would" in the verb in the main clause.

    Consider the following:

    If I had an older brother, he would not let me go to the movies. (I'm sure you agree that "have" would be incorrect here.)

    Similarly,
    If you didn't visit us for Christmas this year, that would be best for everyone. (I simply changed the order of the clauses in Maxiogee's sentence and rewrote the main clause a little so that it sounds better.)

    On another note, I don't see why moderators' opinions should be more or less desirable or authoritative than anyone else's. Moderators are not chosen based on outstanding linguistic abilities but on a variety of many other, very different factors. :)
     

    Dimcl

    Senior Member
    Canadian English
    On another note, I don't see why moderators' opinions should be more or less desirable or authoritative than anyone else's. Moderators are not chosen based on outstanding linguistic abilities but on a variety of many other, very different factors.

    My apologies for any hurt feelings.
     

    Tadeo

    Senior Member
    Español (México)
    Thank you all for taking time to answer me.

    So let me try:

    If it is a possibility:
    A)I would prefer that you didn't came???

    If it is a fact:
    B)I would prefer that you don't come???

    Grammatically wich is the best option???
    I insist: thi is a little confusing to me because in Spanish, A means vinieras, and B vengas, and although A might is grammatically wrong, it can be commonly used.

    So I would really thank you if you could give a grammar explanantion.
     

    elroy

    Imperfect mod
    US English, Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    With "that" I would use "not come" (no "do"). With "if" I would use "didn't come" (but there are obviously some who prefer "don't come"). Also, with "if" there needs to be an "it."

    I would prefer that you not come.

    I would prefer it if you didn't come.

    I hesitate to attempt a grammatical explanation, but I will if you insist. :D
     

    Tadeo

    Senior Member
    Español (México)
    Sorry to bother you elroy, but I insist could you give a some grammar explanantion??? (doesn't mather if it is not so extensive)

    I'd appreciate it if you did so or I'd appreciate it if you do so???
    (I think this phrase is another example :=)

    I understand the use of would: I would say.....
    I would do it....etc. etc.

    But what happens when you have I would like you to try
    I would prefer if you don't etc.,etc,
    And other examples with two verbs in the sentence. I didn't know you that the verb like can't be used with negatives (don't, didn't) is that truth???

    Since there is no subjunctive tense in English; what happens then???
    Thank you so much.
     

    elroy

    Imperfect mod
    US English, Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    There is a subjunctive mood in English; perhaps your thinking there wasn't one is part of the problem.

    I would prefer that you not come.

    This is the present subjunctive; that's why "do" is not used. Many people would still say "do," but technically that's not correct.

    The positive version of this sentence would be the following:

    I would prefer that you come.

    This is still the subjunctive, but it's identical to the indicative. That it is a subjunctive becomes clearer if you use a singular third-person pronoun, which does not have an "s" in the subjunctive.

    I would prefer that he come. (not "comes"!).

    ***
    I would prefer it if you didn't come.

    This is the past subjunctive. It does use "did."

    ***
    Why did I choose the present subjunctive in the first sentence and the past subjunctive in the second? I'm not sure, but that's what sounded best to me.

    Oddly enough, I'm happy with the past subjunctive in the first sentence if the verb is positive ("I would prefer that you came") but not so much if it's negative ("I would prefer that you didn't come"). Again, I don't know why.
     

    Tadeo

    Senior Member
    Español (México)
    Thank you SO MUCH!!!!

    Just one more thing :wich would be the positive sentence for the example in past subjunctive:

    I would prefer if you came????

    And is that thing about the verb to like true???
     

    elroy

    Imperfect mod
    US English, Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    Just one more thing :wich would be the positive sentence for the example in past subjunctive:

    I would prefer if you came????
    It would be "I would prefer it if you didn't come." The past subjunctive is identical to the past indicative.
    And is that thing about the verb to like true???
    What, exactly? Could you ask a more concrete question, maybe with an example? :)
     

    foxfirebrand

    Senior Member
    Southern AE greatly modified by a 1st-generation Scottish-American mother, and growing up abroad.
    And is that thing about the verb to like true???
    Elroy, I think he's referring to Dimcl's statement in post #2:

    None of the above work because of your use of the word "like". I don't know the grammatical rules for this but "like" is a positive word that doesn't work with the negative "didn't/not/don't". It would be the same as saying "I like that you don't drive because you're a bad driver". The word I would use is "prefer" ie. "I prefer that you don't come".
    I agree with this-- oddly, I wasn't going to venture a post in this thread because that "I like that you don't/didn't/won't" thing is exactly what hurt my ear-- and realized that when it came to a rule about why that was, I didn't have idea one.

    What you say about the subjunctive is all spot on. Problem is, maxiogee might've used the blunt indicative (with if instead of that)-- for the precise reason of denying a certain family member the "wiggle room" inherent in the subjunctive.

    It's like the "I would prefer it that you" is the polite setup, and the "don't come" is a sneaky punchline, shifting into what amounts to the imperative mood.

    Also, it's arguable that since "come" and "do come" are synonymous, "that you don't come" is an emphatic form of the present subjunctive, "that you not come." Not on Christmas, not ever.
    .
    .
     

    comsci

    Senior Member
    Mandarin, Taiwan(Yankees 40 Wang)
    I think it's a question of whether you use "prefer" or "wish".

    "I wish you didn't come." - present subjunctive and sounds OK.
    "I wish you hadn't come." - past subjunctive and sounds OK.
    "I would prefer that you don't come." - a subtle tone telling someone not to come.
    "I would prefer you not to come(imperative)." - an emphatic tone asking someone not to come.

    IMHO, subjunctive mood initiates with "If" or "wish", at least more so than the rest, such as "would prefer".
     

    elroy

    Imperfect mod
    US English, Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    My two cents:
    "I wish you didn't come." - present subjunctive and sounds OK.
    "I wish you hadn't come." - past subjunctive and sounds OK.
    Actually, the first of these is the past subjunctive, and the second is the perfect subjunctive. I would personally use the second sentence, because it's more precise. However, I am aware that the simple past commonly replaces the past perfect in casual speech.
    "I would prefer you not to come(imperative)." - an emphatic tone asking someone not to come.
    I would prefer "I would prefer that you not come."
     

    Tadeo

    Senior Member
    Español (México)
    Well, it's me again, I just argue with my English teacher about this post, and he swears that English doesn't have a Subjunctive mode; The use of I would is a conditional mode and it is the closest thing to the subjunctive in spanish(according to him).My techewr is australian so maybe that has something to be with his grammar.

    So what do you say???

    One more thing:
    I quoete wht elroy wrote
    This is still the subjunctive, but it's identical to the indicative. That it is a subjunctive becomes clearer if you use a singular third-person pronoun, which does not have an "s" in the subjunctive.

    I would prefer that he come. (not "comes"!).

    Can you give more examples with third person??? Is this completely correct???
    Thank you all.
     

    elroy

    Imperfect mod
    US English, Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    We're veering a little off-topic. For several previous threads on the topic, do a search for "subjunctive" in thread titles and limit your search to the English forum. Feel free to send me a private message as well.
     

    Tadeo

    Senior Member
    Español (México)
    Thank you elroy. i appreciate your help.
    Do you mind if I ask for the translation of the phrase:
    I would like that he come in the vocabylary forum???

    I'd like to know other options.
     

    elroy

    Imperfect mod
    US English, Palestinian Arabic bilingual
    You mean in the Spanish forum? Of course you may ask there.

    The sentence is not correct, though - as indicated in comments made earlier in the thread. :)
     
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