Discussion in 'English Only' started by judkinsc, Dec 10, 2005.

  1. judkinsc

    judkinsc Senior Member

    English, USA
    Interesting, look what the dictionary, WordReference, gives for the translation of "idem" in English.
    (Taken from a notice of "idem" in the French-English forum.)

    Is anyone familiar with the usage of ibid in English? Ibidem makes sense, since it's the Latin for "the same here", but I have never seen "ibid" used.
    Idem also makes sense for "The same thing."

    adv idem Compound Forms:ibid.adv ibid. (Abréviation de ibidem)
  2. Gordonedi

    Gordonedi Senior Member

    UK (Scotland) English
    I see ibid. quite often in books and articles showing multiple references to other sources. I don't recall seeing idem in the same context.
  3. judkinsc

    judkinsc Senior Member

    English, USA
    Interesting. They use it as a citation abbreviation in those articles? i.e. "ibid.:Johnson and Mark, 1999" or "The sense of the phrase is the same in many authors." (ibid.: Johnson and Mark, 1999; Luke and Smith, 1988; Wales and Cornish, 2002.)
    And so on?
  4. valy822

    valy822 Senior Member

    Naples / Milan
    Italy- Italian
    I personally used these two words in my degree thesis. My teacher explained them to me and their use. Of course we find them not only in degree thesis but also in books as you said.
    Ibidem and idem are always referred to the previous note of a book or in a thesis like mine. You have to write Ibidem if the note of a particular point of the text wants to mean "the same place and the same page" of the previous one, referred for instance to a writer's work. Instead, you have to use Idem if it is "the same place but not the same page".
    I wrote so many notes in my thesis that I have learnt them very well!

    For instance, this is the first note of a book:
    William Shakespeare, Hamlet, page 2, place and year of publication.

    Then, in the second note, if the book is the same, you could write:
    1) (only) Ibidem
    2) Idem, page 13 for example.

    Sorry for this long and maybe unuseful explanation but I was remembering one of the most exciting moments in my life....
  5. judkinsc

    judkinsc Senior Member

    English, USA
    Thank you.
  6. Kelly B

    Kelly B Senior Member

    USA English
    Not the place to say so, perhaps, but idem is quite often used in French in the same way we'd use "ditto." Perhaps I'll go make a dictionary suggestion.
  7. river Senior Member

    U.S. English
    "Ibid." (from ididem, "in the same place") refers to a single work cited in the note immediately preceding.
    "Idem." When several works by the same person are cited successively in the same note, idem ("the same," abbreviated id.) may be used in place of the author's name. (The Chicago Manual of Style)
  8. Aquarelle087071 Senior Member

    Hindi, English
    Can anyone put some light on idem and ibid. I think its same as Valy822 explained but please confirm.

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