Icelandic/Kiswahili: sími/simu

[linshentian]

In Icelandic, I believe phone is ''sími'' and in Kiswahili it is ''simu''.
Is there a relation between these two words?

 

[Frank06]

Hi,

Welcome to EHL!

In Icelandic, I believe phone is ''sími'' and in Kiswahili it is ''simu''. Is there a relation between these two words?

Two similar words, two completely unrelated languages... To be honest, my first reaction was "Oh no, not again!"

But it seems that Swahili simu comes from Persian sim, metal thread, wire, (silver) string (سیم), and is used for telephone (and these days for mobile phone), see here (PDF, page 2 for general information on loans in Swahili, page 23 for simu-sim). I couldn't find any further information on the etymology of the Persian word.

On quite some (non-linguistic) websites, I found that Icelandic telephone, simi, comes from "an old Icelandic word for 'thread' or 'wire'". I tried a few Old Norse/Old Icelandic dictionaries, but I couldn't find back that specific word.

I am still quite skeptical about a possible connection, whether or not the two words are ultimately cognates, but with this information, the question looks more intriguing than it was at first glance.

Does anybody have more information on the etymology of the Persian and the Old Icelandic/Old Norse words involved?

Groetjes,

Frank

 

[Alxmrphi]

I found this question asked “Hver er uppruni orðsins sími?” which means “What is the origin of the word sími? on this website.

It doesn’t really give any historical dates except when they were discussing what word to use for phone at a conference. But it does state “Orðið sími er gamalt í málinu. Það var þó einkum notað í hvorugkyni, síma, í merkingunni 'þráður, band'” (The word sími is old in the language. It was normally used in the neuter, síma, with the meaning “thread / line (i.e. string)”)

But it includes a quote from an Icelandic etymological dictionary (Íslensk orðsiðjabók) giving quotes of its cognates in the neighbouring languages (nágrennamálin) i.e. in Scandinavia and also the cognate in Old English which indicates a very old root that goes back to the father language before Old English and Old Norse split off from each other.

It states: má finna sîmo í fornsaxnesku og sîma í fornensku í merkingunni 'band' which is It can also be found as sîmo in Old Saxon and sîma in Old English with the meaning “string”.

As you can tell, band in Icelandic is the English word for string.

I had a quick look in an Old English dictionary online but couldn’t see a matching word, nearly finished my lunch at work so can’t check now, maybe someone else can find something, it doesn’t look (to me) like a borrowing from after Germanic split.

 

[berndf]

I had a quick look in an Old English dictionary online but couldn’t see a matching word, nearly finished my lunch at work so can’t check now, maybe someone else can find something, it doesn’t look (to me) like a borrowing from after Germanic split.

Here you find cognates in various Germanic languages. It is obviously a common Germanic word. But this doesn't demonstrate yet the link to Persian and we would have to dig out the Kiswahili etymology as well. Maybe Persian->Arabic->Kiswahili as a starting hypothesis?

 

[Ghabi]

My Swahili dictionary confirms what Frank quotes above: "simu, the telegraph, telegraphic message ... from Persian سیم wire" (Standard Swahili/English Dictionary, Oxford, 1939). I can't find the word in my Arabic dictionaries for formal Arabic, but my Egyptian-Arabic dictionary (Hinds/Badawi) contains the word, also tracing its origin to Persian. It's glossed as "code, secret language".

 

[berndf]

Thank you. So it is very likely the two words are cognate. Interesting.

 

[Frank06]

Hi,

Sergei Nikolayev's Indo-European etymology gives PIE *sey- for the Germanic form.
I had a look at Lubotsky's Indo-Aryan inherited lexicon, but I don't manage to find a link between the Persian and the Germanic word.
And if that is not enough, Kent's Old Persian gives in the part about siyamam 'made of silver', a very dodgy etymology for Modern Persian sim (< Pahlavi < Greek) and the comment "but this seems anachronistic".

I am confused .

Frank

 

[linshentian]

Thanks for answers, just had to ask.
I am intrigued by languages and how they might be related.

I believe that Kiswahili does contain words derived from Arabic speaking merchants(correct me if I am wrong). The word ''Chai'' comes from India or something, which again is similar to the word in Chinese ''Cha''.

Words can travel far, and it is just amazing to study.

 

[Maroseika]

TThe word ''Chai'' comes from India or something, which again is similar to the word in Chinese ''Cha''.

Do you mean tea?

 

[sokol]

But it seems that Swahili simu comes from Persian sim, metal thread, wire, (silver) string (سیم), and is used for telephone (and these days for mobile phone), see here (PDF, page 2 for general information on loans in Swahili, page 23 for simu-sim). I couldn't find any further information on the etymology of the Persian word.

Wow, what a find! My first thoughts were very similar to yours actually.

I believe that Kiswahili does contain words derived from Arabic speaking merchants(correct me if I am wrong).

Yes indeed, this is the case, and if this etymology proves to be correct (as evidence gathered so far in the posts above points in this direction) this is most likely how the Persian word travelled to Africa - via the vehicle of Arabic.

However, "chai" of course ("čaj - tea" in many Slavic languages) is a different matter, and a different topic; halfway putting my mod hat on - please open a new thread if you'd like to discuss that one.

 

[linshentian]

Do you mean tea?

Yes, I do mean tea.
茶

Utterly fascinating.

I did not know that this word(possibly connected) could be found in slavic languages as well, I think someone should make a map of the world for every word and colour the countries using the word(with the natural change in pronounciation of course) to see which way they have travelled. That way we could see if we could connect ''word migration'' to the migration of people. Different discussion, so I will end it there.

Thanks for good answers.

Steffen