Icelandic: Lára bíður þangað til Rafn og Sigga eru farin.

[gramster]

I came across this sentence, "Lára bíður þangað til Rafn og Sigga eru farin", in Olly Richards Short Stories in Icelandic for Beginners [(Teach Yourself) (p. 185). John Murray Press. Kindle Edition].

First, is there anything idiomatically odd about this sentence? As established in other threads relating to this book, the fact that the stories have all been translated from English into Icelandic often gives rise to idiomatically peculiar constructions, so, my first question is about whether something like that is happening here.

Next, and more importantly (rest assured, I will not be asking my first question about every sentence in the book), I find it weird that both Google Translate and Microsoft Translate render this sentence in English in a way that omits the obvious equivalence between the Icelandic adverb þangað and the English adverb there.

Google Translate gives: "Lára waits until Rafn and Sigga have left."
Microsoft Translator gives: "Laura waits until Rafn and Siggi are gone."

To clarify, I'm not worried about the "Lára" vs "Laura" difference or the "have left" vs "are gone" difference. I'm worried about the missing adverb. Why don't they both say, "... waits there until...."?

Is this just some bug that both MTs happen to share? Or is there something going on with Icelandic usage here?

Thanks!

 

[Rafeind]

So for the first question: I think I would more often formulate this as "Lára bíður þar til Rafn og Sigga eru farin". But this is a minor difference and there is nothing that strikes me as un-idiomatic with the original sentence.

As to the second question: both "þar til" and "þangað til" mean "until". "... waits there until ..." would translate as "bíður þar þangað til ..." or "... bíður þarna þar til ...". The adverb is not missing at all.

(There is a third way to translate this meaning of "until" into Icelandic: "uns". That one is quite formal.)

 

[Segorian]

First, is there anything idiomatically odd about this sentence?

No, I don't see anything wrong with it.

often gives rise to idiomatically peculiar constructions

I should emphasize that my claims about this are based on only a few examples, which may not be representative of these translations as a whole.

Why don't they both say, "... waits there until...."?

Because þangað til simply means ‘until’. As a conjunction, ‘until’ can be either þangað til (að) or þar til (að). (The að is optional and tends to be left out.) Here, þangað and þar do not indicate a place or direction.

There is also a third word, uns, which has largely fallen out of use, although the following is a recent example:

Áður en lengra gekk í þeim bardaga stukkum við af baki og hlupum uns við komum auga á bar sem var umkringdur túristum.

Uns was previously spelled unz because it is a contraction of und-s, using the same root as the English word.

 

[gramster]

Wow, I'm really glad I asked this question!

I should emphasize that my claims about this are based on only a few examples, which may not be representative of these translations as a whole.

Fair enough, but they form a disproportionately large percentage of my own questions, which leads me to think that it's a significant problem with the book as a whole. Having said that, I do feel as if I've learned a great deal by studying the book, so I wouldn't recommend against using it, but I do think anyone who does use it should be aware of this issue and brace to adjust for it.

I should probably mention that I find the English version of the book to be written somewhat awkwardly as well. It occurs to me that in both languages we may simply be looking at some sort of artifact of forcing oneself to write at the A2-B1 level.

 

[Segorian]

I would more often formulate this as "Lára bíður þar til Rafn og Sigga eru farin"

I agree. I think it was different only a few decades ago, but nowadays people are more likely to use þar til than þangað til.

It occurs to me that in both languages we may simply be looking at some sort of artifact of forcing oneself to write at the A2-B1 level.

That seems quite likely. Simplifying one's language without making it unnatural isn't a straightforward task.