Ich weiß genau, welche Szene welches Films die Lisl so erschüttert.

Luchjo

Senior Member
Hispana - Kolombio
Hi. so erschüttert. I just listened to this in a song: Ich weiß genau, wann Tom seine Meerschweinchen füttert
und welche Szene welches Films die Lisl so erschüttert.

Who is "die Lisl"? Is he/she somebody well-known in German culture? Thank you.
 
  • Demiurg

    Senior Member
    German
    Lisl / Liesel is a variant of the female name Elisabeth. Using an article before a proper name is colloquial style. You could also say:

    Ich weiß genau, wann der Tom seine Meerschweinchen füttert.
     

    Kajjo

    Senior Member
    Is he/she somebody well-known in German culture?
    No, the name is not connected with a popular story. I expect that the context gives an explanation, who Lisl (a woman) is. Please read carefully the preceding paragraphs of this sentence.

    As Demiurg already pointed out, using the definite article in front of a proper name, is not standard German and only used in some dialectal region. In standard German using the article is considered beging derogative.
     

    Demiurg

    Senior Member
    German
    I expect that the context gives an explanation, who Lisl (a woman) is. Please read carefully the preceding paragraphs of this sentence.

    The context is Facebook:
    Ich habe 44 Freunde, alles ist in Butter,
    darunter auch mein Kumpel und ein Nachbar meiner Mutter, ...

    Afterwards, some of these "friends" are mentioned:
    Ich weiß genau, wann Tom seine Meerschweinchen füttert
    und welche Szene welches Films die Lisl so erschüttert.
    Ich kenne Tinas Zimmer im Urlaub in Tirol
    ...
    Melina hat aktuell ’n bisschen Langeweile.
    Olli sucht verzweifelt seine Nagelfeile.
     

    Kajjo

    Senior Member
    So it's clear that Lisl is one of his female friends on Facebook.

    The usage of "die Lisl", in contrast to only "Tom" and all other names sounds for me like standard German with a slight derogative feeling about Lisl (and probably her oversentimalism with regards to movies). Anyway, difficult to say.

    One more thing: "welches Films" sound almost wrong to me. I would never use "welches", always "welchen" instead. Canoo lists both versions as valid, though. Strange feeling. What do other natives prefer?
     

    Demiurg

    Senior Member
    German
    The usage of "die Lisl", in contrast to only "Tom" and all other names sounds for me like standard German with a slight derogative feeling about Lisl (and probably her oversentimalism with regards to movies). Anyway, difficult to say.

    I guess the only reason is the rhythm/meter of the song.

    One more thing: "welches Films" sound almost wrong to me. I would never use "welches", always "welchen" instead. Canoo lists both versions as valid, though. Strange feeling. What do other natives prefer?

    Same here.
     

    gvergara

    Senior Member
    Castellano (variedad chilensis)
    One more thing: "welches Films" sound almost wrong to me. I would never use "welches", always "welchen" instead. Canoo lists both versions as valid, though. Strange feeling. What do other natives prefer?

    Same here.

    Hallo:

    Warum sollte es in diesem Fall welchen denn sein? Soweit ich weiß, wird welch dekliniert genauso wie der bestimmte Artikel. Wikipedia bestätigt dies:p:

    Certain adjectival pronouns also decline like der: all-, dies-, jed-, jen-, manch-, solch-, welch-. These are sometimes referred to as der-words.

    Danke im Voraus,

    Gonzalo
     
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    Demiurg

    Senior Member
    German
    Warum sollte es in diesem Fall welchen denn sein? Soweit ich weiß, wird welch dekliniert genauso wie der bestimmte Artikel. Wikipedia bestätigt dies:p:

    Certain adjectival pronouns also decline like der: all-, dies-, jed-, jen-, manch-, solch-, welch-. These are sometimes referred to as der-words.

    Bei diesen Wörtern hast du im Genitiv Singular oft das gleiche Problem: die Endungen -es und -en sind beide möglich, wobei -en i.d.R. besser klingt, z.B. bei all-:

    der Ursprung allen Lebens
    das Ende allen Leidens
    der Weg allen Fleisches


    Hier ist die Regel:
    Genitiv es und en
    Einige Pronomen, die im Genitiv Singular Maskulin und Neutrum die Endung es haben, können vor männlichen und sächlichen Nomen wie ein Adjektiv mit der Endung en stehen. Dies geschieht nur, wenn das Nomen den Genitiv mit der Endung s oder es bildet.

    In allen anderen Stellungen verwendet man für den Genitiv Maskulin und Neutrum die Pronomenform mit der Endung es.

    all: meistens allen statt alles

    die Ursache allen Übels
    die Grundlage allen geistigen Lebens

    aber
    ein Bewunderer alles Schönen
     
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