If you go to the supermaket

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choose_me

Senior Member
Turkish
Tengo una duda al respecto del uso de subjunctivo. Estoy hablando de un hipótesis, quiero decir a mi amigo ' if you go to the supermarket, let me know, sería si te vas al super, me avisas o Si te vayas ...? Cuál es correcto?

Gracias
 
  • blasita

    Senior Member
    Spain. Left seven years ago
    Hola:

    El presente de subjuntivo (vayas) es incorrecto en esa oración condicional. Si vas al supermercado/al súper, dímelo/avísame, etc.

    Saludos.
     

    blasita

    Senior Member
    Spain. Left seven years ago
    Porque es sintácticamente imposible. DPD -si:
    1.1.1. «Reales». Se denominan así porque la condición expresada es un hecho posible o realizable. El verbo de la prótasis va en indicativo, en cualquiera de sus tiempos, salvo en el futuro simple o futuro, futuro compuesto o antefuturo, condicional simple o pospretérito y condicional compuesto o antepospretérito;
    Para expresar menor probabilidad, se usaría el imperfecto de subjuntivo-condicional ("condicional irreal"), pero entonces el original en inglés sería otro ("second conditional").
     
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    levmac

    Senior Member
    British English
    Conditionals:

    Present in English = present indicative in Spanish

    If you go = si tú vas

    Past in English = imperfect subjunctive in Spanish

    If you went - si tú fueras
     

    forum.wr

    New Member
    Spanish-Spain
    Creo que la idea de "hipótesis" ya la aportas al decir "si".
    De todas maneras, si quieres usar condicional, sería correcto decir "si te fueras al super..." pero nunca podrías decir "si te vayas..."
    Espero haberte ayudado.
     

    FredGSanford

    Senior Member
    Amer. English & Spanish
    Creo que la idea de "hipótesis" ya la aportas al decir "si" :tick::thumbsup:
    .. si hablas con tu mami, me la saludas por favor ... si quieres hablarme por teléfono, que sea ya por favor ... si comes pescado, ten cuidado con las espinas ... si manejas bajo la lluvia, cierra las ventanas de tu auto ... Ninguno de los hechos anteriores ha ocurrido todavía y no tuve que recurrir al subjuntivo. Saludos :thumbsup:
     

    blasita

    Senior Member
    Spain. Left seven years ago
    Gracias, me lo había imaginado. Como ya te hemos explicado, si consideras que la condición es improbable o irrealizable, puedes usar "si fueras/fueses ..." ("if you went ..."). Y ten en cuenta que el subjuntivo se usa para otras cosas aparte de para expresar menor probabilidad.
     

    mykstor

    Member
    American English
    In Spanish is it ever correct to formulate a "real" IF-clause in the future tense?
    I am an ESL teacher in Arizona and notice that my students occasionally attempt to put the IF-clause in the (grammatical) future tense in English.
    Example:
    Si iras a esa tienda mañana, encontraras muchas cosas interesantes.
    Is this possible or commonly heard in Mexican Spanish?
     

    mykstor

    Member
    American English
    "Si fueras" is 2nd person, imperfect, subjunctive, right?

    With that, I believe you are giving me an imaginary condition...
    "If you were going to this shop tomorrow, ... OR: "If you went to this shop tomorrow,
    ... then my future tense encontraras would have to change to a subjunctive too, right?
    ...you would find a lot of interesting things." ... unless I am mistaken...

    I'm looking for the straightforward real condition:
    "If you go to this shop tomorrow, you will find many interesting things."

    Is the Spanish for this "Si vas manaña..., encontraras...." ?

    My question is whether it is usual for Mexicans to say "Vas mañana a la tienda, o cuándo?" or: "Si vas allá mañana, encontrarás algo muy bueno."
    ....or whether talking about "tomorrow" in Spanish requires the verb to go to be in the future tense as well:
    "Si iras mañana allá a la tienda,... encontraras..."

    Perhaps you could give me complete two-clause sentences?? ;-)

    Thank you once again for you help. I'm an ESL teacher in Casa Grande, Arizona and am currently writing lessons and exercises for real and imaginary conditional sentences... arguably one of the hairiest grammatical topics to teach <=> learn.
     
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    lagartija68

    Senior Member
    Castellano rioplatense
    My question is whether it is usual for Mexicans to say "Vas mañana a la tienda, o cuándo?" or: "Si vas allá mañana, encontrarás algo muy bueno."
    ....or whether talking about "tomorrow" in Spanish requires the verb to go to be in the future tense as well:
    "Si iras mañana allá a la tienda,... encontraras..."

    Perhaps you could give me complete two-clause sentences?? ;-)

    Thank you once again for you help. I'm an ESL teacher in Casa Grande, Arizona and am currently writing lessons and exercises for real and imaginary conditional sentences... arguably one of the hairiest grammatical topics to teach <=> learn.
    Ni con "si" ni con "cuando" puede ir futuro. ¿No es igual en inglés?

    "Si irás vas manaña a la tienda, encontrarás..."

    "Cuando irás vayas mañana a la tienda, encontrarás..."


    Además se puede usar el presente con valor de futuro:


    "Sí, mañana voy a a la tienda."



    El futuro se usa poco, es más de promesas de discurso político, o alguna situación solemne y con el sentido de conjetura: "¿Estará ahora en la tienda?"
     

    mykstor

    Member
    American English
    Thank you, jsvillar, for pointing out the difference between Si te vas... and Si vas...
    My Spanish being at best intermediate, I have often wondered why I sometimes hear ir as reflexive and sometimes not.
    Thanks to your comment, I finally grasp this valuable nuance.

    Living in Barcelona, when someone suddenly needed to get up and leave a lively conversation, I often heard,
    "¡Qué **ñ*! Es muy tarde. Tengo que marcharme."

    I think I can now safely assume now that the reflexive pronoun functions here in the same way:
    "I've got to get [myself] marching!"
     

    jsvillar

    Senior Member
    Spanish - Spain
    Sorry, mykstor, but no. That 'se' in 'marcharse' changes the meaning, so it is a totally different verb. Marchar means to march, but marcharse does not mean to march yourself, it means to leave. In fact, and according to my kids' school books, that 'se' now is considered to be a part of the verb because it changes its meaning:

    El niño se marchó ayer:
    Subject: El niño
    Nucleus of the subject: Niño (noun)
    Predicate: Se marchó ayer
    Nucleus of the predicate: Se marchó (verb):eek:
    Complement of time: Ayer (adverb)

    In the north of Spain (Asturias) they sometimes ommit the 'se', both when it is reflexive and when it belongs to the verb (Rompí una pierna. Marcho, que es tarde). However they don't ommit it for 'Irse', probably because it would lead to confusion.

    Some other verbs that change its meaning with the pronoun:
    Acordar, Admirar, Aprovechar, Dormir, Encontrar, Fiar, Fijar, Limitar, Ocupar, Parecer, Pasar...
     

    lagartija68

    Senior Member
    Castellano rioplatense
    Sorry, mykstor, but no. That 'se' in 'marcharse' changes the meaning, so it is a totally different verb. Marchar means to march, but marcharse does not mean to march yourself, it means to leave. In fact, and according to my kids' school books, that 'se' now is considered to be a part of the verb because it changes its meaning:

    El niño se marchó ayer:
    Subject: El niño
    Nucleus of the subject: Niño (noun)
    Predicate: Se marchó ayer
    Nucleus of the predicate: Se marchó (verb):eek:
    Complement of time: Ayer (adverb)

    In the north of Spain (Asturias) they sometimes ommit the 'se', both when it is reflexive and when it belongs to the verb (Rompí una pierna. Marcho, que es tarde). However they don't ommit it for 'Irse', probably because it would lead to confusion.

    Some other verbs that change its meaning with the pronoun:
    Acordar, Admirar, Aprovechar, Dormir, Encontrar, Fiar, Fijar, Limitar, Ocupar, Parecer, Pasar...
    Lo mismo pasa entre ir e irse, son dos verbos distintos.
     

    mykstor

    Member
    American English
    Thank you both J and L for edifying me further!
    ...But because for some of us language questions never end....
    Do native Spanish speakers note any distinction at all, be it in "feeling", "tone" or "urgency" or a regional difference (or anything else) between:
    Tengo que irme.
    and
    Tengo que marcharme.
    ??
    Once again, I thank any respondents in advance;-)

    Also, if I may, jsvillar... note that it is omit. ... certainly an easy mistake to make as English so often doubles consonants whereas Spanish doesn't.
     
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    jsvillar

    Senior Member
    Spanish - Spain
    Also, if I may, jsvillar... note that it is omit. ... certainly an easy mistake to make as English so often doubles consonants whereas Spanish doesn't.
    Of course you may, thanks a lot. I cannot edit it, it was posted too long ago, so it will stay with a double 'm':(.

    Right now I don't see any difference at all between 'irse' and 'marcharse'. Maybe 'marcharse' puts a stress in the leaving part?:confused::confused:
    - Me voy al supermercado: I'm going to the supermarket, but since I'm with you I'm using the word leaving instead of going.
    - Me marcho al supermercado: I'm leaving you. Why? because I'm going to the supermarket.
    Honestly, wait for other answers, I'm not even sure if this I'm saying is correct.
     

    gvergara

    Senior Member
    Español
    Do native Spanish speakers note any distinction at all, be it in "feeling", "tone" or "urgency" or a regional difference (or anything else) between:
    Tengo que irme.
    and
    Tengo que marcharme.
    No difference in meaning at all here in Chile. It should be noted, though, that marcharse is not commonly used by us Chileans who, for a change, tend to use it only now and then. We have got a marked preference for irse.
     

    User With No Name

    Senior Member
    English (U.S.)
    No difference in meaning at all here in Chile. It should be noted, though, that marcharse is not commonly used by us Chileans who, for a change, tend to use it only now and then. We have got a marked preference for irse.
    I may be wrong, but I associate "marcharse" mostly with Spain.
     

    gvergara

    Senior Member
    Español
    As to that, I cannot tell, @User With No Name, but I could add that at least in my country we tend to use marcharse rather rudely when we're telling someone to go away. Luos Miguel, the well-known Mexican singer has a song called Ahora te puedes marchar.
     
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