I'm going tell you about my travel

KaleNovice

Senior Member
Chinese
I want to say "I'm going tell you about my travel".

いま わたしの りょこうが はなす.

I don't know which verb to use. What is a better verb to replace hanasu? Thank you!
 
  • SoLaTiDoberman

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    いまから わたしの りょこうについて はなす
    This sentence is fine basically. I mean you can use hanasu as the verb.

    However, a more natural Japanese sentence adopts "polite expression with desu/masu."
    Therefore, it's better to use hanasi-masu instead of hanasu.

    いまから、 わたしの りょこうについて はなします。

    Another version would be:
    いまから、 わたしの りょこうについて おはなし します。
    おはなし is divided into o (a politeness indicating prefix) and hanashi (a noun).
    します is the polite version of する(a verb).
     

    karlalou

    Banned
    母国語:日本語
    Yes, 話す(はなす) is probably the most basic and the most versatile verb for 'tell'.

    But you need to conjugate it when talking to someone because without conjugation はなす sounds so abrupt, though it can be a good style to convey a definite attitude if it's used by someone knows what he's doing.

    はなします or better おはなしします are safe and most commonly used.

    And if you use 'が' before はなす, it ends up showing WHO is telling.
    "About my travel" should be わたしのりょこう について[or のことを].
     

    KaleNovice

    Senior Member
    Chinese
    Thank you for the answers! I thought we always have to add a particle before a verb like "わたしのりょこうについて [を] はなします”
     

    karlalou

    Banned
    母国語:日本語
    I thought we always have to add a particle before a verb like "わたしのりょこうについて [を] はなします”
    That is right. You can say it with を, but we usually don't say it after について.

    If you say it with を, you are treating the "わたしのりょこうについて" part as one noun. You can do that but it's not necessary.
     
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    SoLaTiDoberman

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    I disagree with the previous reply.

    I don't think わたしのりょこうについてをはなします is acceptable.
    It's very weird and grammatically incorrect.
    You should choose either について or を.

    わたしのりょこうについてはなします。:tick: (This is the most natural.)
    わたしのりょこうをはなします。:cross: (This is a little weird.)
    (りょこう+について has better collocation than りょこう+を. )
    わたしのりょうについてをはなします。:cross: (This is grammatically wrong.)
    わたしの体験(たいけん)をはなします。:tick:
    わたしの体験についてはなします。:tick:
    わたしの体験についてをはなします。:cross:
    (たいけん+を and 体験+について both have good collocation.)
     

    karlalou

    Banned
    母国語:日本語
    I think it's necessary to show a valid reason when you disagree so that OP won't be confused unnecessarily.

    As this dictionary page describes について and shows an example 「日時については後日連絡する」, we do use 〜について as a noun. We do also say, for example, 課内旅行についての件は…
    Lots of time についてをお話しします could be 「〜について」をお話しします, but you can also see many examples of 〜についてを on Google search such as 〜についてを考えていきます or 〜についてをお話ししていただきました, and I feel no problem with them.
     

    SoLaTiDoberman

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    If I googled "についてを," I was able to get the results such as:

    「清め塩について」をアップしました.
    「神社の紋章について」をアップしました.
    「2015年度海外認定研修について」を掲載しました。
    『中小企業における 「 情報セキュリティ 」 のポイントについて』を開催しました。
    ITAからのお知らせ - ITAについてを更新しました。

    I think it's okay to say "『私のりょこうについて』をおはなしします。"
    which is probably translated as
    "I'll talk about "ABOUT MY TRIP."
    or "I'll give a presentation for "ABOUT MY TRIP."
    In these English, the double preposition may be acceptable because of its context.
    Likewise in Japanese, the duplication of について and を may be acceptable in some contexts.

    However, generally speaking, double prepositions are often weird in English.
    Likewise, I strongly believe that the duplication of について and を is not usually acceptable in Japanese.

    Going back to the original question at #1:
    >>I want to say "I'm going tell you about my travel".
    This was not "I'm going (to) tell you about "ABOUT MY TRAVEL."
    Therefore, I can disagree with the explanation by another Japanese member.


    This is, however, just my personal thinking, and I don't want to offend anybody. :)
    But I personally advise the original poster not to use the duplication in most of the cases.


    Edit) I agree that 日時については後日おはなしします is quite natural Japanese.
    But 日時についてを後日おななしします sounds very weird to my ears, maybe to MY ears only.
    There is no valid reason. If there is, I am a native-Japanese who thinks so.
    Therefore, if another native-Japanese disagree with me, it's another truth, and there are two truths/rules/explanations. That's all.
     
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    karlalou

    Banned
    母国語:日本語
    「他者の異なる言葉遣いも、その人の「自己表現」として受け止める姿勢を持つことに留意したい。「植木」をいつくしみ育てる気持ちは、「あげる」「やる」のいずれによっても表現される。別の例とした「お弁当」の「お」を添えるか添えないかについても、話し相手に向けて自らの言葉遣いをどのように整えたいかという気持ちから「自己表現」として選ばれる。(文化庁の文化審議会国語分科会による答申『敬語の指針』2007)」
    I've read this document recently and want to support it. They also mention that they respect dialects and the unique ways of local people use keigo.

    They seems to have been busy organizing kanji and keigo up until now, and it's a shame that they couldn't have time to organize grammar very much yet, but I believe they think in the same generous and practical way for grammar as well.

    I have no authority to govern how someone talk or write. I am just trying to tell Japanese learners come here to ask their questions how we natives talk and write, and what does not sound like native's.
     
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    Flaminius

    coclea mod
    日本語 / japāniski / יפנית
    To my ears ...についてをはなす sounds a bit awkward but not so much so as to label it ungrammatical. It's probably rare but not unheard of.

    From the Japanese corpus 少納言 (search term についてを), we have 6 examples in print and 4 on the Internet. The following are four printed examples:
    話題作「ハリー・ポッター」の魅力 についてを 英語で話す
    葬儀 についてを 、他人にまかせず自分の頭で考えようとした
    お互いの昔と今 についてを 語り合って過ごした
    行状 についてを 克明に喋らされる結果となった

    I would say についてをはなす is grammatical but the construction sounds more natural without を.
     

    810senior

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    I'm afraid I have never heard of についてを; except for a noun consisting of について, like an article or a book's name as mentioned in the SoLaTiDoberman's post.
    I as well doubt if that expression is really grammatically correct...
     

    frequency

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    話題作「ハリー・ポッター」の魅力 についてを 英語で話す
    葬儀 についてを 、他人にまかせず自分の頭で考えようとした
    お互いの昔と今 についてを 語り合って過ごした
    行状 についてを 克明に喋らされる結果となった
    I would say についてをはなす is grammatical but the construction sounds more natural without を.
    In these examples, the all fragments prior to を are the objects of the verbs. Therefore they work.

    In 私のりょこうについてをはなします.
    「私のりょこうについて」 is the object of the verb 話す.
    So this
    『私のりょこうについて』をおはなしします。
    is only possible.

    This 私のりょこうについてをはなします has two connectors.
     

    Flaminius

    coclea mod
    日本語 / japāniski / יפנית
    Shōnagon returns some 70 results for について話す while についてを話す is a single instance. Even if you count cases where verbs for speaking are used, the figure is still 3. It is a rare phenomenon.

    You cannot, however, push them sideways as mistakes. Searching for a similar construction, についてが, returns about the same number of hits. No doubt, について can sometimes take postpositions like regular nouns.
     

    karlalou

    Banned
    母国語:日本語
    Redundant happens because they know the grammar, consciously or not. Redundant is grammatical. Just not necessary. It is sometimes a way of expression.

    In fact, from 〜についてをお聞きしました etc., I feel a positive attitude trying to be extra careful or polite. I think 〜についてを is an expression which goes well with a polite wording like お聞きしました.
     
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    frequency

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    In speech, one might carelessly add を and say
    私のりょこうについてをはなします。

    This awkwardness could happen and not a serious error. But we must say and write
    わたしの りょこうについて おはなし します (or はなします)。
    「私のりょこうについて」 is, as 810 said, a tremendously common title for book, essay, slideshow, etc. (You can find this usage everywhere.)
    When it is used with を it really sounds like a title, being confusing.
    Therefore, 私のりょこうについて(お)はなします。 is the usual way we do.

    The Flam's four examples do not cause confusion; therefore they're okay.
     
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    810senior

    Senior Member
    Japanese
    Guess it's kind of lacking in my knowledge.
    Even though it's grammatically allowed, I recommend you to use について by leaving out an object particle を. That's more comprehensible.
     

    KaleNovice

    Senior Member
    Chinese
    Okay thank you everyone for taking time to take part in this discussion! It takes time to digest all this considering that I'm still a beginner trying to ask a very simple question ! Haha ありがとうございます!
     
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