In addition to differences, we also have common customs.

whips

New Member
Spanish - Spain
大家好,


I am trying to express something like "In addition to/ Apart from differences, Orientals and Westerners also have common habits/customs". I would say:
除了差异意以外,西方人和东方人还有共同的习惯/风俗。

I have used the 除了...以外...还/也... structure just because I think it sounds cool for writing. :)

Thanks in advance.
 
  • SimonTsai

    Senior Member
    Taiwanese Mandarin
    除了差异以外,西方人和东方人还有共同的习惯/风俗。
    I am sorry, but this sounds somewhat odd to me.
    "In addition to/ Apart from differences..."
    Would 'despite' work better?
    "... Orientals and Westerners"
    I am not that happy about being called an Oriental.

    'East Asians and Westerners share many habits and customs, despite the differences.'
    東西方雖就許多方面,存有差異,但在習俗與習慣,仍有不少相似之處。
     
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    yuechu

    Senior Member
    Canada, English
    Someone told me that the word "Orientals" is not pejorative in British English. Is this true? In any case, in North America, I would avoid using this word (if referring to East Asians).
     

    philchinamusical

    Senior Member
    Chinese-Mandarin and Shanghai dialect
    'East Asians and Westerners share many habits and customs, despite the differences.'
    東西方雖就許多方面,存在差異,但在習俗與習慣,仍有許多相似之處。
    1. “差异意以外” is a typo, I believe.
    2. I like yours for it's more accurate and formal, while whip's saying is more informal as daily speaking in mainland China.
     

    whips

    New Member
    Spanish - Spain
    First of all, thank you to both of you.

    Yes, writing 意 was a mistake :(

    Actually the sentence is just an example, but yes, it would seem odd to me if someone generalized by saying "Westeners" (I'm Spanish and there are also many cultural differences within the EU, for instance). I could have provided a little more context, it's been my fault. In Spain some times we use the terms "East" and "West" (mainly in written register) and doing so is not pejorative whatsoever, but I agree that it is a very broad way of referring to people and personally I almost never talk that way.

    Thank you very much again.
     

    philchinamusical

    Senior Member
    Chinese-Mandarin and Shanghai dialect
    In fact, in mainland China, most of us don't feel offended being called "东方人". We even have a 东方航空公司(Eastern Airline), and 东方电视台(Oriental TV). It's only in English or other languages also, that "Easter" and "Oriental" are holding different concepts.
     

    whips

    New Member
    Spanish - Spain
    I'm sorry anyway, because I'm not a native English speaker and this kind of details escapes me.

    By the way, is my sentence correct too? Until now I thought I had this structure more ore less under control.
     

    retrogradedwithwind

    Senior Member
    Chinese
    Simon's suggestion is not friendly to a language learner. It's too complicated.

    除了不同点以外,东西方还有许多相同的风俗习惯。
    This is good enough, even for formal writing.

    And welcome to this forum and hope It's a good experience of learning Chinese.
     
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    philchinamusical

    Senior Member
    Chinese-Mandarin and Shanghai dialect
    @whips In my opinion, your sentence is correct. And if I were you, perhaps I will add a "些"(some) to make the second part of it sound more natural. So it will be like:

    "除了差异以外,西方人和东方人还有共同的习惯/风俗"
     

    SimonTsai

    Senior Member
    Taiwanese Mandarin
    In fact, in mainland China, most of us don't feel offended being called "东方人".
    This is true in Taiwan as well.
    I'm sorry anyway, because I'm not a native English speaker and this kind of details escapes me.
    The word 'oriental' is derived from 'orient', originally meaning 'the direction of the rising sun'. Hence, 'East Asians' and 'Orientals', per se, often are interchangeable; I do not find 'Orientals' offensive. (Think of the neutral albeit rather uncommon adjective and noun 'occidental', derived from 'occident', originally meaning 'the direction of the setting sun'.)

    The reason why I said that I am not that happy about being called an Oriental is that, somehow, it is widely known by Americans and Asians as an outdated term carrying stereotypical imagery, and perhaps racism, and that I was unsure whether you were conscious of the supposed nuance.

    But now that I am aware that you do not intend to offend me, it is fine. I am neither an English native; we all make mistakes. :)
    By the way, is my sentence correct?
    Whilst I seem to be in the minority, I would insist that your sentence sounds somewhat weird; but it is ultimately your choice whether or not to accept it.

    除了 (not only... but...; in addition to)
    • 除了相貌英俊,華玨活潑開朗,人又聰明體貼,常被女孩追求。
    • 除了語法錯誤,你的句子完全地不合理,讓人看了一頭霧水。
    雖然 (in spite of (the fact that))
    • 華玨和我雖然個性迥然相異,我們欣賞彼此尊重彼此,同窗三年,結為好友
    • 這篇文章雖然出自名家之手,在我看來,不過爾爾
     
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    SuperXW

    Senior Member
    My suggestion:
    西方人和东方人之间不仅有差异,也有一些共同的习惯、风俗。

    Most of my opinions are the same to other friends:

    1. Chinese definitely prefers giving the subject (i.e. "who/what" are we talking about) at the beginning.

    2. 有共同的习惯/风俗 gives people the impression that the two groups are similar, meaning they have few differences, but what you says at the beginning tells that they ARE different.
    I add 一些 to solve the contradiction. 一些 shows that they shares only SOME common things.

    3. 除了... is commonly used as "except.../besides.../in addition to...". It is quite flexible, good but may brings the sentence "many possibilities".
    For example, the followings are all correct sentences.
    他们间除了差异以外,还有共同点。
    他们间除了差异以外,就没有共同点了。
    他们间除了外表差异以外,还有性格差异。
    I changed it to "不仅". It limits the options to "not only...". Readers may easily get the logic.

    4. I will not be offended by "orientals". In fact, most native Chinese people don't even recognize the word. They will not feel uncomfortable either if they look up the word in the dictionary.
    Maybe it is because some Americans say it with stereotype, but we native Chinese don't know it so we can't feel it.
     
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    stephenlearner

    Senior Member
    Chinese
    Whilst I seem to be in the minority, I would insist that your sentence sounds somewhat weird; but it is ultimately your choice whether or not to accept it.

    除了 (not only... but...; in addition to)
    • 除了相貌英俊,華玨活潑開朗,人又聰明體貼,常被女孩追求。
    • 除了語法錯誤,你的句子完全地不合理,讓人看了一頭霧水。
    雖然 (in spite of (the fact that))
    • 華玨和我雖然個性迥然相異,我們欣賞彼此尊重彼此,同窗三年,結為好友
    • 這篇文章雖然出自名家之手,在我看來,不過爾爾
    I agree. I feel "东西方除了一些差异,还有一些相同点” sounds odd. It doesn't sound smooth and natural. Compare these:
    两人除了吵架,打架。
    两人除了一起读书,一起听了会儿音乐。
    两人除了敲诈勒索,干了其他一些不好的勾当。
    All of these sentences talk about the same kind of things, in descending degree or ascending degree. None of them talks about a "but" structure, a turn or change of the direction.
     

    Skatinginbc

    Senior Member
    Mandarin 國語
    Maybe it is because some Americans say it with stereotype
    "東方人 vs. 西方人"的二分法常反映刻板印象 (stereotype). 在某些中國人眼裡, 黃皮膚的是"東方人", 金髮藍眼的是"西方人". 中國社會對刻板印象不那麼在意, 任其猖狂罷了.
     

    SimonTsai

    Senior Member
    Taiwanese Mandarin
    None of them talks about a "but" structure, a turn or change of the direction.
    This is the point.

    With 但是, the use of '除了...... 還有......' may be appropriate, as in the context below:

    誠然,東西方的文化不同,但是除了差異,我們還有許多共同的信仰,例如愛,例如慈悲,例如和平。彼此間的不一樣豐富我們的視野,而相同處則凝聚彼此。
     
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    nosaijin

    Senior Member
    Taiwanese Mandarin
    In your case, I prefer "除了…之外,也有…".
    I wouldn't claim "還有"is incorrect, though I'll use it in this way:
    "東方和西方除了語言(差異)之外,還有服裝、宗教、飲食上的差異."
     
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