Indian summer

übermönch

Senior Member
World - 1.German, 2.Russian, 3.English
how d'you call the occurance of an extraordinary warm early autumn (as it is now :D) in your language?
English(Am.): Indian Summer
French: l'été indien - indian summer
German: Altweibersommer - Old women's summer
Russian: Bab'ye Leto - Grannie's summer
 
  • Marga H

    Senior Member
    Poland,Polish
    Polish:babie lato
    like Russian,but it doesn't mean grannie'summer
    baba means rather old women(and I think it's the same in Russian)
     

    Qcumber

    Senior Member
    UK English
    Isn't l'été indien a calque from English, something that belongs to franglais? I thought the proper French name was l'été de la Saint Martin.
     

    Frank06

    Senior Member
    Nederlands / Dutch (Belgium)
    Hi,

    In Dutch it's simply 'nazomer', lit. 'after-summer'.


    Another word is "oudewijvenzomer", from German Altweibersommer, lit. old women's summer. I must say I never heard it myself...
    Anyway, some people think it has to do with Germanic/Nordic mythology, with the three old women spinning and cutting the thread (of life), the 'nornir'.
    Makes me think of the Russian expression mentioned above...


    Groetjes,

    Frank
     

    pickypuck

    Senior Member
    Extremaduran Spanish
    In Spanish there are two possibilites (that I know):

    Veranillo del membrillo - Quince little summer.
    Veranillo de San Miguel - St. Michael's little summer.

    It's not extraordinary here since it happens every year :) (normally the last days of September, first days of October).

    ¡Olé! :cool:
     

    betulina

    Senior Member
    català - Catalunya
    In Catalan it's like in French and Portuguese: "estiuet de Sant Martí" (Saint Martin's little summer), although it hasn't been cold here yet, so we don't say that it is the "estiuet de Sant Martí" now. It's usually when it's been already cold, which is by Saint Martin, mid-november.
     

    ronanpoirier

    Senior Member
    Brazil - Portuguese
    Outsider said:
    Portuguese: Verão de São Martinho (Saint Martin's summer).
    Here in Rio Grande do Sul we call it veranico de maio, because it occurs in May... since the beginning of our Autumn is hot yet. Are we talking about the same phenomenon?
     

    Marga H

    Senior Member
    Poland,Polish
    This period is named old women's summer (in Polish,Czech and Russian) because of cobweb,gossamer threads which fly with the wind in the air,white like old women's hair.
    Maybe someone can explain why it is called indian summer?
     

    jmx

    Senior Member
    Spain / Spanish
    I'm surprised it's San Miguel in Spanish.
    In Spanish there are both veranillo de San Martín and veranillo de San Miguel. Maybe it depends on the region in Spain, I don't know.

    San Miguel : September the 29th.
    San Martín : November the 11th.
     

    ireney

    Modistra
    Greek Greece Mod of Greek, CC and CD
    Halcyon days in Greece although they happen in winter (January).

    See here for a definition (contains link to definition of "halcyon") and here for the myth surrounding them.
     

    apmoy70

    Senior Member
    Greek
    Halcyon days in Greece although they happen in winter (January).

    See here for a definition (contains link to definition of "halcyon") and here for the myth surrounding them.
    Indeed, but that period of warm weather occurs in winter (January), the warm weather that occurs in autumn, usually in mid-late October is the «καλοκαιράκι του Αγίου Δημητρίου» [ka.lɔ.ceˈɾa.ci tu aˈʝi.u ði.miˈtri.u] --> St. Demetrius' little summer. It's named after st. Demetrius because it usually occurs around the saint's feast day (October 26).

    Some etymology
    -MoGr neut. «καλοκαιράκι» [ka.lɔ.ceˈɾa.ci] --> little summer, short period of sunshine & warm weather, is the diminutive of the MoGr neut. colloquial noun «καλοκαίρι» [ka.lɔˈce.ɾi] --> summer. It has replaced in the vernacular the older word «θέρος» [ˈθe.ɾɔs] (neut.) < Classical neut. «θέρος» tʰérŏs.
    «Καλοκαίρι» = oblique case «καλο-» [ka.lɔ-] (used in compounds) of adj. «καλός, -λή, λό» [kaˈlɔs] (masc.), [kaˈli] (fem.), [kaˈlɔ] (neut.) --> good, nice, likeable < Classical adj. «καλός, -λή, -λόν» kălós (masc.), kălḗ (fem.), kălón (neut.) --> beautiful, noble, good (of unknown etymology) + masc. noun «καιρός» [ceˈɾɔs] --> weather, right time, favourable opportunity < Classical masc. «καιρός» kai̯rós --> right measure, right/decisive point of time, favourable opportunity, time of the year, time (of uncertain etymology).
    -MoGr adj. «άγιος, -ία, -ο» [ˈa.ʝi.ɔs] (masc.), [aˈʝi.a] (fem.), [ˈa.ʝi.ɔ] (neut.) --> saint, sacred, holy < Classical adj. «ἅγιος, -ίᾱ, -ον» hắgiŏs (masc.), hăgíā (fem.), hắgiŏn (neut.) --> devoted to the gods, holy, sacred (PIE *Hiegh₂ǵ- holy cf Skt. यजति (yajati), to adore, honour, worship).
     
    Italian:
    in Italy, although it is sunny, it is not particularly warm this autumn, last year it was way hotter in October and November. (At least in my area) :)
    As for the question in OP, we can say:
    1) L'estate di San Martino - Saint Martin's summer
    2) Ottobrata - lovely and sunny days in October.

    I have never heard L'estate indiana before! Probably, I thought it was a real Indian summer...
     
    Last edited:

    apmoy70

    Senior Member
    Greek
    Italian:
    in Italy, although it is sunny, it is not particularly warm this autumn, last year it was way hotter in October and November. (At least in my area) :)
    As for the question in OP, we can say:
    ...

    I have never heard L'estate indiana before! Probably, I thought it was a real Indian summer...
    This October is warm in Greece, right now we have reached 25-26º C (mid-70'sº F) and within the next week, ten days or so, it's expected to reach even 30º C (85-86º F) at least in the south of the country.
    Btw I've never heard Indian summer before too.
     

    nimak

    Senior Member
    Macedonian
    In Macedonian it is called "Ѓупско лето" (Ǵupsko leto) ['ɟupskɔ 'lɛtɔ] "Gypsy summer".
     

    Vukabular

    Senior Member
    Serbian
    -MoGr neut. «καλοκαιράκι» [ka.lɔ.ceˈɾa.ci] --> little summer, short period of sunshine & warm weather, is the diminutive of the MoGr neut. colloquial noun «καλοκαίρι» [ka.lɔˈce.ɾi] --> summer. It has replaced in the vernacular the older word «θέρος» [ˈθe.ɾɔs] (neut.) < Classical neut. «θέρος» tʰérŏs.
    «Καλοκαίρι» = oblique case «καλο-» [ka.lɔ-] (used in compounds) of adj. «καλός, -λή, λό» [kaˈlɔs] (masc.), [kaˈli] (fem.), [kaˈlɔ] (neut.) --> good, nice, likeable < Classical adj. «καλός, -λή, -λόν» kălós (masc.), kălḗ (fem.), kălón (neut.) --> beautiful, noble, good (of unknown etymology) + masc. noun «καιρός» [ceˈɾɔs] --> weather, right time, favourable opportunity < Classical masc. «καιρός» kai̯rós --> right measure, right/decisive point of time, favourable opportunity, time of the year, time (of uncertain etymology).
    In Serbian:
    Kоложег / Kolоžeg (old name for "January")
    Коледар / Koledar (old name for "December")
    Коледари / Koledari a festival in January dedicated to the pre-Christian god Koledo
    Коледо
    / Koledo is a being that can be seen in two ways – as a winter spirit and as a god. Festivals dedicated to Koledo took place in the winter, and the most important one was Koljada that coincided with the date of the winter solstice. Customs related to this holiday survived into Christianity, and some authors consider that Christianity took this holiday over and transformed it into Christmas. In Bulgaria Christmas is still called Koleda, and the greeting used on this day is “merry Koleda”.
    Koledo is Ovsenj’s twin brother. Their mother is Zlatogorka Maja and their father is Dazbog. Ovsenj was born before Koledo and harnessed the horses to the heavenly chariot to make way for his brother. Koledo symbolizes the descent of god Krishna or Krisnji to earth. Ovsenj appears in the summer and Koledo in the winter. On the day of the winter solstice Ovsenj says farewell to the old year and Koledo welcomes the new year, or the new Sun. Koledo gave people the knowledge of the universe and the celestial bodies. He gave them a book about the stars that the Slavs called Koledo’s Star Book. Here we can see another similarity between Koledo and Krishna. Krishna brings people knowledge in form of books – Vedas, and Koledo does the similar thing. If we consult the Vedas we can draw a conclusion that Koledo is an embodiment of Krishna or Krisnji, the term used by the Slavs to denote this god. Koledo made a calendar for the humans, a calendar that the Slavs called “Koledo’s gift”, and he also revealed to them the knowledge of “the Great Circle” (probably the Milky Way). According to legend, Koledo’s last descent on earth was around 6530 BC. According to the old Serbian calendar, now is the year 7528. Since then the knowledge was passed on from one generation to the next. The Greeks used to say that they got their sacred knowledge of the stars from the Hyperboreans from the north.
    Календар / Kalendar ("calendar") -dar ("gift") literally "gift from Koledo"
    Probably derived from word "коло" (kolo, colo) that means wheel. Kolo is Serbian traditional circular dance. Kolač is a traditional round bread dedicated to the gods.
    Probably the etymology for the word κολοσσός (kolossós, “large statue, especially the colossus of Rhodes”) Sun God, circle, wheel >>>KOLO
    Коловрат / Kolovrat ("swastika") from kolo (wheel) + vrat<vrt ("spinning") literally "spinning wheel"
     

    apmoy70

    Senior Member
    Greek
    The Latin calendarium, calendæ (from which the modern calends, calendar, Коледо, Koleda, καλένδες, κάλαντα derive) are traditionally accepted as deverbative derivatives from the Latin verb calāre < PIE *kelh₁-.
    The South-Slavic Коледо/Koledo, Koleda come from the OCS колѧда < Latin Calendæ.
    Κολοσσός is a Pre-Greek word, from a possible root *koloky-/*koloky-n- with depalatalization before the nasal cf «κολεκάνος» or «κολοκάνος» --> lank, lean person
     

    Vukabular

    Senior Member
    Serbian
    PIE *kelh₁- ("to call, cry, summon") > Latin: calō, calāre ("I call, announce solemnly, call out") > calendae ("new moon" missing etymology) > calendarium ("an account book, debt book " missing etymology) > calendar
    Ancient Greek κᾰλέω (kaléō) ("I call, summon, I invite, I invoke, I summon, I demand")

    PIE *kʷól-os (“to turn”) > Proto-Slavic *kȍlo ("wheel, circle") > ALL SLAVIC > kolo, коло, ко́ло, kȍlo, koło...("wheel, circle")
    Sun, moon, cycle, calendar, year = wheel, circle = kolo
     

    Welsh_Sion

    Member
    Welsh - Northern
    In Welsh: 'Haf bach Mihangel' = Michael's little summer. (Because it occurs around Michaelmas).

    My home village is called Llanmihangel-yn-y-grug (St Michael's [church] in the heather). But it's rarely used in its full name, preferring 'Llanrug'. Everyone then asks who was the saint called 'Rug' (!)

    Further, 'Mrs Jones Llanrug' is the Welsh equivalent of the legal English 'the man on the Clapham, omnibus'. (Maybe becausewe have the highest % of Welsh speakers in the universe at 85% who speak the language daily.)

    This could be another interesting thread: I think it's 'John Doe' in American legal English' … How about your language?
     

    Graciela J

    Senior Member
    Spanish - Argentina
    In Spanish there are both veranillo de San Martín and veranillo de San Miguel. Maybe it depends on the region in Spain, I don't know.
    In South America it is called veranillo or veranito de San Juan, depending on the country.

    veranillo de San Juan
    1. m. Par. y Ur. Tiempo breve de calor o de sequía que, en América del Sur, suele presentarse a fines de junio.

    veranito de San Juan
    1. m. Arg. y Chile. veranillo de San Juan. U. t. en sent. fig.
     
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