Indirect object with passive voice

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halcyon2

Member
English - U.S.
My questions concern the following sentence:

Και σε καθέναν που θα πει λόγο ενάντια στον Υιό του ανθρώπου θα του αφεθεί.

1) Is του considered an indirect object here? If not, then what is the correct term? (In English, this would be called a "retained object," I believe.)
2) How common is this construction in Μοdern Greek?
3) Could the same meaning be expressed another way?

Thanks for any help.
 
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  • Perseas

    Senior Member
    1) I think in the passive construction it's just "object" since there is no "direct object" now.
    2) It is very common.
    3) Yes, with a prepositional object: σ' αυτόν (σ' = σε --> preposition)

    Another example more simple:
    Active: Η σχολή δεν του έδωσε πτυχίο. (του = indirect object ; πτυχίο = direct object).
    Passive: Πτυχίο δεν του δόθηκε από τη σχολή or Πτυχίο δεν δόθηκε σ' αυτόν από τη σχολή. (του/σ' αυτόν = object; Πτυχίο = subject).
     
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    sotos

    Senior Member
    Greek
    Και σε καθέναν που θα πει λόγο ενάντια στον Υιό του ανθρώπου θα του αφεθεί.

    2) How common is this construction in Μοdern Greek?
    The sentence is modern greek indeed, except that "αφεθεί" which is not very common. It could be "... θα του συγχωρεθεί".
     

    Αγγελος

    Senior Member
    Greek
    We do speak of "άφεση αμαρτιών", and even of "άφεση χρέους" in legal parlance, but αφέθηκε/αφεθεί is NOT used in the sense of "forgiven" in Modern Greek. Whoever wrote this simply cut and pasted the original verb. The construction, on the other hand, is perfectly standard: "θα μου/σου/του συγχωρεθούν οι αμαρτίες" is the normal way of saying "my/your/his sins will be forgiven".
     

    halcyon2

    Member
    English - U.S.
    1) I think in the passive construction it's just "object" since there is no "direct object" now.
    Thanks, Perseas. I have a Greek book that's supposed to be "comprehensive," but it doesn't seem to mention this situation. Shouldn't there be a more definitive term than just "object," though? The book does mention the term "benefactive," which seems to come close to what we're discussing here.

    Another example more simple:
    Active: Η σχολή δεν του έδωσε πτυχίο. (του = indirect object ; πτυχίο = direct object).
    Passive: Πτυχίο δεν του δόθηκε από τη σχολή or Πτυχίο δεν δόθηκε σ' αυτόν από τη σχολή. (του/σ' αυτόν = object; Πτυχίο = subject).
    OK, thank you for the helpful examples.
     

    halcyon2

    Member
    English - U.S.
    The sentence is modern greek indeed, except that "αφεθεί" which is not very common. It could be "... θα του συγχωρεθεί".
    Thanks, sotos. Yeah, I couldn't find the definition "to forgive" for αφήνω in any dictionary. :)
     

    halcyon2

    Member
    English - U.S.
    We do speak of "άφεση αμαρτιών", and even of "άφεση χρέους" in legal parlance, but αφέθηκε/αφεθεί is NOT used in the sense of "forgiven" in Modern Greek. Whoever wrote this simply cut and pasted the original verb.
    Thanks for the info, Αγγελε. I'm not sure the name of the translator, but I'll definitely take that translation with a grain of salt in the future. :)

    The construction, on the other hand, is perfectly standard: "θα μου/σου/του συγχωρεθούν οι αμαρτίες" is the normal way of saying "my/your/his sins will be forgiven".
    OK, that makes sense. Incidentally, French seems to have a similar situation. Here' s a French translation of the same sentence:

    Toute personne qui dira une parole contre le Fils de l'homme, cela lui sera pardonné.

    It's also rather amusing that my "comprehensive" French grammar doesn't seem to mention this case either. It seems the word "comprehensive" is an exaggeration when it comes to many grammars. ;)
     
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