Indre / Indram

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witchetty

New Member
English - Australian
I found a list of apprentices to various craftsmen in 1662. The entries are all in Latin.

I've managed to translate most of it, but a couple of phrases elude me.

1.
Willielmus Corlesse filius Johannis Corlesse nuper de Upholland in Com Lancaster Carrier per Indram pon: se appren Theophilo Ludby de Grocers Alley pro octo annis a die pred dat etc.

William CORLESSE, son of John CORLESSE recently of Upholland in County Lancaster ... apprenticed to Theophilus LUDBEY of Grocers Alley for eight years ...

Presumably Carrier per Indram pon refers to the father's occupation (following the pattern of similar entries).
Does anyone know what the equivalent in English would be?
~~~

2.
Johannes Simmonds filius Johannis Simmons nuper de Wickenford in Com Wigorn Laborer defunct po: se appren Theophilo Ludbee de le Livery ac Civi et Carpenter London pro septem annis a die dat Indre Dat die et ann ult pred.

John SIMMONDS, son of John SIMMONDS recently of Wickhamford in County Worcestershire, labourer deceased ... apprenticed to Theophilus LUDBEE of the livery, citizen and carpenter in London, for seven years ??? ...

What do the words in bold mean?
 
  • exgerman

    Senior Member
    NYC
    English but my first language was German
    Indra = indenture
    per Indram pon se = per indenturam ponit se = places himself by indenture
    a die dat Indre = a die datae indenturae = from the day of this indenture
    I think that dat die et ann ult pred = to the same day of the final year mentioned above (i.e. the same day of last year of the indenture)

    Click through to Help with Apprentices' Entry Books 1654-1694 for a little bit more info.
     
    Last edited:

    witchetty

    New Member
    English - Australian
    Thanks for that :)

    What does "Carrier" mean - in front of "per Indram pon"?

    William CORLESSE, son of John CORLESSE recently of Upholland in County Lancaster ??? places himself by indenture ...
     

    exgerman

    Senior Member
    NYC
    English but my first language was German
    What does "Carrier" mean - in front of "per Indram pon"?
    William CORLESSE, son of John CORLESSE recently of Upholland in County Lancaster ??? places himself by indenture ...
    I don't know. It should be the father's profession. In the 19th century it meant "Driver of (horse-drawn) vehicles for transporting goods." No idea if that applies to the 17th century.

    I expanded my answer above a bit so you might want to look at it again.
     

    witchetty

    New Member
    English - Australian
    Fair enough, I guess they couldn't think of a Latin word that meant "carrier" so they just used the English.

    Thanks again :)
     
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