Infinitive tenni

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angeloegabri

Member
Italian
Good morning!
I have just noticed in the Wiktionary that every verb has a supplementary conjugation line, which for the verb "tenni" gives for example "Infinitive tenni tennem tenned tennie tennünk tennetek tenniük".
For the verb "kiejteni" it gives "Infinitive kiejteni kiejtenem kiejtened kiejtenie kiejtenünk kiejtenetek kiejteniük".
This conjugation is more or less similar to the Conditional, but some Persons are still different.
So, what represents this Conjugation line?
Thanks in advance :):)
 
    • In Hungarian, you can ‘conjugate’ the infinitive, basically giving it a person.

    For example: menni - to go > mennem - for me to go, menned - for you to go, mennie - for him/her to go etc.

    It is used in such structures as ‘kell + infinitive’, where ‘kell’ means ‘it is necessary, must’, so to say ‘I must go’ you say ‘mennem kell’, ‘you must go’ > ‘menned kell’, ‘we must go’ > ‘mennünk kell’ etc.
     
    This "conjugation line" is the imperative + verb/auxiliary (I call "compound imperative"), as Panceltic explained above.
    It may look similar to the conditional but it is important to know the difference.
    It is not even the same as the classic imperative form of verbs, which would be Sing.: tegyek (S.C.) or tegyem (O.C.), tegyél or tedd, tegyen or tegye, Pl: tegyünk or tegyük, tegyetek or tegyétek, tegyenek or tegyék. However, there is a usable pattern (albeit a bit complicated):
    In the forms you mention, the (full or shortened: ni or n) infinitive is followed by the suffixes of the imperative objective conjugation (O.C.) in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd Pers. Singular (= tennem, tenned, tennie) and the suffixes of the subjective conjugation (S.C.) in the 1st and 2nd Pers. Plural (= tennünk, tennetek)...
    In general, the 3rd person forms are the simplest cases where the plural form is usually just the plural of the 3rd. Pers. Singular (e.g. beszél - beszélnek) but it doesn't work in this case (compound imperative). (Instead of *tenniek, it is tenniük.)

    It is true that the suffix of the infinitive (-ni) stays with or without the "i" throughout the "conjugation". (Whether the word is rightly used for this in English... I have some doubts.)

    A bit more background rules:
    The root of Hungarian verbs is the 3rd person Sing. Indicative (this is why it is used in Hungarian dictionaries instead of the infinitive forms). E.g.: beszélni (infinitive) -> beszélek, beszélsz, beszél (= conjugated forms in the Singular, except the 3rd. Pers. Sing which does not have any suffix in this conjugation -> the root form of the verb).
    But it is the same "logic" - one way or another - in the cases of other verb conjugations as well (whatever the tense, etc.).

    In the case of the "compound imperative": (Infinitve +suffixes and an auxiliary like kell, szükséges, lehet, etc.)
    There are suffixes even in the 3rd Pers. Sing.: e.g. beszélnie
    1. the "ni" of the infinitive form is fully visible (showing the "root" you are using throughout this "conjugation", i.e. the infinitive - following the above mentioned logic)
    2. the "e" to indicate the 3rd Pers. Sing. because the infinitve form alone does not indicate any person.

    In the 1st and 2nd persons of your examples (and elsewhere) it is only the "n" of the infintive (-ni) is visible, as the connecting vowel of the "usual suffix" of the conjugation "dominates" over the "i" (of -ni). (There is "no point" in having two vowels when one is perfectly enough to connect two consonants. ... This is a bit of an unorthodox formulation of things but it may help understanding - again - the logic/"rule" behind it.)
    So, instead of e.g. tenni+em -> tennem or beszélni+em-> beszélnem.

    Sorry, this was a bit complicated but it happens when you try to explain reasons or tendencies in grammar... But some of them are worth knowing...:idea:
     
    angeloegabri said:
    I have just noticed in the Wiktionary that every verb has a supplementary conjugation line, which for the verb "tenni" gives for example "Infinitive tenni tennem tenned tennie tennünk tennetek tenniük".
    Click to expand...
    In my opinion the logic of this construction is not so complicated as it seems to be ... I.e. the grammatical ending -m indicates the 1st person singular in general, independently on the category of the given word (noun, verb, pronoun, etc ...).

    See the following words: érzem (I feel), kertem (my garden), velem (with me), tennem ("I/me to do" ?)...

    Thus the form tennem is practically the infinitive of tenni associated with the 1.pers.sg. of this verb.

    (This is a typical feature of the so called agglutinative languages, like Hungarian, Finnish, Turkish, etc ..)
     
    Last edited:
    francisgranada said:
    In my opinion the logic of this construction is not so complicated as it seems to be ... I.e. the grammatical ending -m indicates the 1st person singular in general, independently on the category of the given word (noun, verb, pronoun, etc ...).

    See the following words: érzem (I feel), kertem (my garden), velem (with me), tennem ("I/me to do" ?)...

    Thus the form tennem is practically the infinitive of tenni associated with the 1.pers.sg. of this verb.

    (This is a typical feature of the so called agglutinative languages, like Hungarian, Finnish, Turkish, etc ..)
    Click to expand...

    I agree - as a learner myself I simply see tennem as ‘my doing’, tenned as ‘your doing’ etc. The endings are the same as in nevem, neved etc.
     
    Oh, if only life were as simple and easy like that!;) But it does not hurt to find shortcuts for oneself (as long as we are aware of their limits).:thumbsup:
     
    So, Zsanna, thank you very, very much for this description of the verbs!
    And excuse me if I answer much late.
    I am trying to put myself in the same situation in which a Hungarian sees the things.
    The characteristic of the Conditional is "-ne-", while the characteristic of the Subjunctive is "-sa-", more or less :):)
    Now, let's come to what you say.
    Leaving the exceptions aside, we have that the "tenni-line" is neither "like the Conditional" nor "like the Subjunctive" :):)
    "Trying to put myself in the same situation of a Hungarian" is not for tomorrow :):) but it will come :):)
    Thank you again, Zsanna, I'm going to read more thoroughly your description, but at the same time I feel that it is clear to me.
     
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