inmitten des Seienden selbst seiend zu sein (Heidegger)

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Löwenfrau

Senior Member
Brazilian Portuguese
This one got me, I'm not about the 'selbst':

"Weil es zum wesen der Wahrheit gehört, sich in das Seiende einzurichten, um so erst Wahrheit zu werden, deshalb liegt im Wesen der Wahrheit der Zug zum Werk als einer ausgezeichneten Möglichkeit der Wahrheit, inmitten des Seienden selbst seiend zu sein."

... inmitten des Seienden selbst seiend zu sein.
... inmitten des Seienden selbst seiend zu sein.

Which one?
 
  • Löwenfrau

    Senior Member
    Brazilian Portuguese
    Both readings are possible. But it doesn't really matter because you can omit "selbst". ;)
    "... einer ausgezeichneten Möglichkeit der Wahrheit, inmitten des Seienden selbst seiend zu sein"

    Then this could be rendered as:

    "... an especial possibility of truth, to be in the middle of Being"? (Maybe "of beings", since it not "the Being", but "that which is a being") ?
     

    manfy

    Senior Member
    German - Austria
    "... einer ausgezeichneten Möglichkeit der Wahrheit, inmitten des Seienden selbst seiend zu sein"
    "... an especial possibility of truth, to be in the middle of Being"? (Maybe "of beings", since it not "the Being", but "that which is a being") ?
    No, that doesn't sound right.
    Maybe, "... as an exceptional possibility for truth itself to be being inside of being"

    How do you translate 'das Seiende' normally?
    I've seen several versions, but 'das Seiende' = that which is, and 'das Sein' = the being (as substantivated verb, not as the common noun) sounds best for me.
    If so, this might work: "... as an exceptional possibility for truth itself to be that which is within that which is".
     

    Löwenfrau

    Senior Member
    Brazilian Portuguese
    How do you translate 'das Seiende' normally?
    There is a standard translation in Portuguese. Sein = ser. Seiendes = ente.

    Why not "in the middle"? Maybe this sound bad in English; in Port. I'd say: "em meio ao ente". It not a spatial connotation.
     

    manfy

    Senior Member
    German - Austria
    Why not "in the middle"? Maybe this sound bad in English; in Port. I'd say: "em meio ao ente". It not a spatial connotation.
    "Inmitten" has a connotation but not the meaning of 'in der Mitte'. It is semantically much closer to amid, among, within, inside (depending on context); so basically, enclosed by something else.
     

    Löwenfrau

    Senior Member
    Brazilian Portuguese
    "Inmitten" has a connotation but not the meaning of 'in der Mitte'. It is semantically much closer to amid, among, within, inside (depending on context); so basically, enclosed by something else.
    That can be the meanig of 'em meio a'.

    If so, this might work: "... as an exceptional possibility for truth itself to be that which is within that which is".
    I don't know if you can evaluate this in Portuguese, but if you can, why do you think of this?

    "... de ser ela mesma ente em meio ao ente"
     

    manfy

    Senior Member
    German - Austria
    "... de ser ela mesma ente em meio ao ente"
    With my limited Spanish (which is rather rusty these days), I can deduce that the structure looks good, but I'm afraid I wouldn't dare to confirm or deny whether Heidegger's intended connotations are being brought across.

    In fact I'm still struggling a bit to understand the German sentence as a whole (but those bits you're asking about are quite clear). There are some strange structures in there. As expected, the sentence makes little sense in 'normal German'; that's why I read up (again!) on his definition of Wesen, Wahrheit, Seiendes and now I can't shake the feeling that it is a striking textbook example for circular reasoning. So much so, that I doubt he would have dared to publish this in written form. The extended statement in this sentence practically 'nichtet' itself. :rolleyes:
    From your experience with reading Heidegger, is it possible that he's (freely) mixing up his own definitions of some words with the traditional definitions?? (well, at least in some places?)
     

    Löwenfrau

    Senior Member
    Brazilian Portuguese
    With my limited Spanish (which is rather rusty these days), I can deduce that the structure looks good, but I'm afraid I wouldn't dare to confirm or deny whether Heidegger's intended connotations are being brought across.

    In fact I'm still struggling a bit to understand the German sentence as a whole (but those bits you're asking about are quite clear). There are some strange structures in there. As expected, the sentence makes little sense in 'normal German'; that's why I read up (again!) on his definition of Wesen, Wahrheit, Seiendes and now I can't shake the feeling that it is a striking textbook example for circular reasoning. So much so, that I doubt he would have dared to publish this in written form. The extended statement in this sentence practically 'nichtet' itself. :rolleyes:
    From your experience with reading Heidegger, is it possible that he's (freely) mixing up his own definitions of some words with the traditional definitions?? (well, at least in some places?)
    Well, from my experience with Heidegger, many things are possible. But the rendition I showed you would make sense because he distinguishes very clearly Sein from Seiendes, and Sein is very close to Wahrheit (in this sense of 'Unverborgenheit'), so that, from this point-of-view, it should strikes us as special that Wahrheit 'acts' like a Seiend... I'm not sure I explained that clearly, does it make sense to you?
     

    manfy

    Senior Member
    German - Austria
    I'm not sure I explained that clearly, does it make sense to you?
    From a reader's perspective, yes; from Heidegger's perspective, I don't know.
    Some of the things I read from him are still too fresh and too confusing or contradicting in my mind. From experience I know, I'll have to give my subconscience some time to sort this out and to separate Fug from Un-Fug (or, to make sense of the senseless) ;)

    But anyway, if this is what you extract from Heidegger's sentence, then you should translate it in a way that leads the Portuguese reader in that direction.
    Even if I would come up with a different theory (which is unlikely) after sleeping over it a few nights, you'd still have to follow Heidegger's actual sentence rather than my interpretation.
     
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