Integrativo

[bbonacco]

integrativo si traduce additional.
La domanda è integrativo a si traduce additional to?
Grazie a coloro che vorranno rispondere.

 

[DDT]

Dubito che si possa rendere direttamente...in più "integrativo a" non mi suona molto corretto, io opterei per "integrativo di"...potresti aggiungere qualche elemento per sapere come rendere al meglio l'espressione?

DDT

 

[bbonacco]

la frase completa è "Le invio i documenti integrativi relativi alla rendicontazione del I anno"

 

[DDT]

la frase completa è "Le invio i documenti integrativi relativi alla rendicontazione del I anno"

"I am sending you the integrative documents related to first year's report" or "Please find herewith the integrative documents related to first year's report"

DDT

 

[bbonacco]

OK ho utilizzato "additional documents related to the first year financial report".
Grazie

 

[DDT]

OK ho utilizzato "additional documents related to the first year financial report".
Grazie

I'd omit "the", which almost sounds pleonastic here!

DDT

 

[lsp]

I looked up pleonastic in the dictionary (learning all kinds of things here, including English), but I have to vote to keep the "the"

 

[DDT]

I looked up pleonastic in the dictionary (learning all kinds of things here, including English)

but I have to vote to keep the "the"

I thought it was almost useless, could you please explain the reason for it's better to keep it?

Thanks,

DDT

 

[lsp]

"I am sending you the additional documents related to the first year financial report".

To make sure I understand, bbonacco is ending up with this sentence and we are questioning the second of the bolded articles, right?

Without being able to quote a rule of grammer, it sounds better. One article describes the additional documents and one is for the first year report, two mutually exclusive entities which require their own articles.

The first "the" is not necesssary if the additional documents were not previously requested by the recipient.

I'd invite other English speakers to weigh in on this, of course.

 

[mimitabby]

I agree with you LSP. That's just the way we say it. heehee. that stinks
for an answer, but in that place, I would also use THE.
mimi

 

[Silvia]

Well, to me it's very simple and clear indeed.

"I am sending you (1)the additional documents related to (2)the first year's report"

1 - (quoting lsp) "it is not necessary if the additional documents were not previously requested by the recipient", the rule is when something has previously been mentioned, and both speaker/writer and recipient/listener know what it's been talked of, the definite article (because English just has ONE definite article ) or a demonstrative pronoun (because there is more than one) can be used.

2 - we imply that there is only one first year's report, THAT ONE is the report for the first year

 

[DDT]

Well, to me it's very simple and clear indeed.

"I am sending you (1)the additional documents related to (2)the first year's report"

1 - (quoting lsp) "it is not necesssary if the additional documents were not previously requested by the recipient", the rule is when something has previously been mentioned, and both speaker/writer and recipient/listener know what it's been talked of, the definite article (because English just has ONE definite article ) or a demonstrative pronoun (because there is more than one) can be used.

2 - we imply that there is only one first year's report, THAT ONE is the report for the first year

I really don't think that's so simple, it's more a matter of nuances than a grammar rule...I never heard of such a grammar rule

DDT

 

[Silvia]

By the way, I noticed many native English speakers keep typing grammer instead of grammar. If at first I would have thought of a typo, now I'm more doubtful.

 

[lsp]

Guilty. Grammar will hound me and confound me until the end of my days. And not just its spelling, I'm afraid!

 

[mainman]

Well, to me it's very simple and clear indeed.

"I am sending you (1)the additional documents related to (2)the first year's report"

1 - (quoting lsp) "it is not necessary if the additional documents were not previously requested by the recipient", the rule is when something has previously been mentioned, and both speaker/writer and recipient/listener know what it's been talked of, the definite article (because English just has ONE definite article ) or a demonstrative pronoun (because there is more than one) can be used.

2 - we imply that there is only one first year's report, THAT ONE is the report for the first year

In my opinion the first "the" would not be needed unless some of, but not all of the documents had already been sent, and the additional documents were now forthcoming. Does this make sense?
mm

 

[morgana]

Credo che abbia a che fare con la regoletta grammaticale dell'articolo the, e cioè che non si usa quando si parla di una cosa in generale, ma che si deve usare se si parla di una cosa in particolare. Siccome ci si riferisce ad un anno specifico, allora bisogna usare the. Mentre nel primo caso si potrebbe omettere perchè i documenti non sono ancora stati specificati nel discorso.
es: "I like beer. I like THE beer you are drinking"
(i like beer, just in case you didn't notice! )

Please correct me if I'm wrong or if this sounds too simplistic.

Cheers

 

[Alfry]

I like it too.... buooona....
"Le invio i documenti integrativi relativi alla rendicontazione del I anno"
la "i" di documenti va tradotta perchè specifica proprio quei documenti integrativi e non alcuni, a mio avviso.

il secondo mi sembra di capire che sia stato messo agli atti come necessario

 

[morgana]

Secondo me, per capire dove ci va il the e dove no, una buona prova è di sostituirlo con "some":

I am sending you SOME additional documents related to (2)the first year's report.

Does it make sense?

 

[Alfry]

credo che abbia senso!
non so se ne ha per chi scrive la mail

 

[DDT]

Secondo me, per capire dove ci va il the e dove no, una buona prova è di sostituirlo con "some":

I am sending you SOME additional documents related to (2)the first year's report.

Does it make sense?

The doubt was actually concerning the 2nd "the", the one preceding "first year's report"

DDT

 

[Alfry]

well, but that dipends on the context.
if you want to point out "first year's report" then you should put a "the" brfore otherwise you souldn't.

 

[lsp]

The doubt was actually concerning the 2nd "the", the one preceding "first year's report"

DDT

Oh thank goodness, I thought I misunderstood all this time. Even so, with all the explanations it does appear there's a consensus that the first the is optional and the second is not. I asked some folks at work today (english speakers only in that crowd, no grammarians, though) and they agreed that by sound alone, the 2nd the is obbligatory. None could cite a rule for it. Maybe the English only forum can help? I've never been there, would they have some experts that could help explain why/why not it should be used?