into there/here

Discussion in 'English Only' started by yakor, Apr 18, 2013.

  1. yakor Senior Member

    Could you tell me if the prepositions "onto/into" could be used before the nouns "there" "here"?
    Put it onto there. Put it into here. If not, in which cases could the prepositions be used before the nouns "here"/"there"?
  2. Egmont Senior Member

    Massachusetts, U.S.
    English - U.S.
    Yes, they can be used in this way.
  3. boozer Senior Member

    I would steer clear of your suggested uses, Yakor. I say 'in here' and 'in there' when talking about big enough places - She's in there (maybe a room) or Help, I'm in here (from inside a huge hole with a broken leg :D ). I cannot think of a suitable context for 'into here/there'.

    PS. I see Egmont disagrees. :)
  4. yakor Senior Member

    But if one say,"I'm in here" "in" is always the preposition? Could it be the adverb?"I'm here,in." OR "I'm in, here"?
    Are any cases when "in" is the adverb, not the preposition before/after "here/there"?
  5. PaulQ

    PaulQ Senior Member

    English - England
    Strangely, I don't like "Put it onto there." I prefer,

    A: "I found your car key."
    B: "Thanks, put it on there"

    But "Put it into here." sounds fine.

    A: "What shall I do with this sugar?"
    B: [holds out a jar] "Put it into here."
  6. yakor Senior Member

    Maybe, the prepositions "onto" and "into" are not used only before "there"?
    What about "in" an "on" that are used as the adverbs? You gave the examples "on" and "in" prepositions. Could one say,"Put it here in (or "on")? OR Put it in, here(there).
  7. PaulQ

    PaulQ Senior Member

    English - England
    I would not say that. It is too strict.

    "Put it onto that/this."
    "Put it into there/that/this"

    Your example is not a clear one; into and onto always imply motion, but "to put" can mean "to move from one place to another" or "to place"

    Use into and onto to imply motion
    Use in and on to imply a place/location.
  8. yakor Senior Member

    Could one say,"Put it here in (or "on")? OR Put it in, here(there). (in and on are adverbs)
    Could one say,"Place/put/stand this box onto/into there"?
  9. yakor Senior Member

    I'm still can't get the answer on my question about using "in" and "on" as adverbs after/before "here" and "there"...
    I can't get what is not clear in my question. Also, could one use "onto" before "here/there"? Is it the same to say,"Put this thing onto here" and "Put this thing on here"?
    "Jump onto here" and "Jump on here" could mean the same, or "jump on here/there" mean only the place where one must be and jump, not the place onto which one must jump on from the floor.
    Last edited: May 12, 2013
  10. rhitagawr

    rhitagawr Senior Member

    British English
    Into and on to (or onto) have the idea of movement towards something and in and on (usually) have the idea of being in a place. I went into the room. I'm in the room. So I can see why yakor is puzzled. However, perhaps it depends on the verb. I'd say:
    1) Put the money in your pocket.
    2) Put the bag on the table.
    3) Put the bag in there - pointing to the cupboard.
    4) Put the shoes in here - holding up a box.
    5) Put the bag on there - pointing to a table.
    6) Put the cups on here - holding up a tray.
    I'd say the same kind of thing with verbs that are similar to put: place, stand, lie etc. But I'd say:
    7) He jumped on to the trampoline and then he jumped up and down on the trampoline.
    8) He jumped into the car.
    Perhaps it's because jump denotes a more energetic action than put. This is only a suggestion.
    However, you definitely want into with some idioms and in with others.
    9) To put a plan into effect.
    10) To leap into action.
    11) To fall in love with someone.
    It looks like a grey area.
    Last edited: May 12, 2013
  11. PaulQ

    PaulQ Senior Member

    English - England

    Are you thinking of such constructions as

    "There is the box and therein are the jewels."
    "He went to London and thereupon bought himself a horse."
    "This is the room and herein the king was killed."
    "I am telling him that the lake has fish in it and hereupon he takes of his clothes and dives in."?
  12. yakor Senior Member

    Why not,"he jumped onto the trampline"?
    If one says "he jumped on the trampline" it means that "he was on the trampline and jumped up and down on there"?
    Also, could you give me some examples where "onto" are used before "there""here"?
    Maybe, there are some verbs when it is possible?
    As PaulQ says, it is not OK to use "onto" after "put" with "there".
    What about "put it onto here"? Or other examples?
  13. yakor Senior Member

    She went into there. (into this room)
    It goes into here. (pointing at the place on a map)
    She went onto there. (She went onto the roof)
    She jumpted onto here. (She jumpted onto the roof,where we are)
    Last edited: May 12, 2013
  14. yakor Senior Member

    No, I'm thinking of "there in/on" "here in/on" Is it possible, when "in" and "on" goes as the adverbs after the "here/there"?
  15. rhitagawr

    rhitagawr Senior Member

    British English
    That's precisely the distinction I was trying to make. If people want to write onto as one word, then fine. It seems that with verbs of putting - at least when they're used in their literal sense - you (usually) want in and on. But I'd say:
    12) She put her hand into/in mine.
    13) I had difficulty in putting my thoughts into words - idiomatic.
    14) She went in there - pointing to a room.
    15) The vase goes on here - pointing to a shelf.
    Like boozer, I can't think of a situation where I'd say into here/there. I believe the into/in distinction is made by the accusative and dative in Russian. Perhaps English doesn't make quite such a strong distinction.
    Last edited: May 13, 2013
  16. yakor Senior Member

    So, you don't use "into" and "onto" before "here" and "there".
    But if instead of here/there it is used the noun?
    Is it correct to say,""The vasa goes into this box"?
    There are a lots of examples when "in" doesn't mean "into". (He goes in circles. He went in a boat) So, it is necessary to use "into"?
    Or "He went in the room. and He went on the street" are correct?
    Which is a part of speech of "here" and "there" in "in/on here/there"?
  17. yakor Senior Member

    Is it correct to say,"He went onto the street"? OR "He went on the street" is correct?
  18. rhitagawr

    rhitagawr Senior Member

    British English
    If you mean he was initially in the house, I'd say He went out on to the street. You can say He walked along the street. This would mean he was already outside. If you mean he was on the pavement and then walked on to the tarmac, I'd say He walked (out) on to the road.
  19. yakor Senior Member

    Could one say,"He/the car went on the street" (He went onto the street)Is it necessary to use "on" and "to" separately?
    He was at home and then took the direction onto the street...he went on the street. or He went onto the street?
  20. rhitagawr

    rhitagawr Senior Member

    British English
    Personally I write on to separately. Some people write onto. I don't think it matters. You could say Cars go on the road - that is where cars move about. They lifted the railway engine on to the track with a large crane. Now the engine can run on the track. Personally I'd say The car went along the street if it's already there. I'd say He drove the car out of the garage and on to the street. He/the car went on the street doesn't sounds quite right to me.
  21. yakor Senior Member

    Would it be wrong, if it were said,"They lifted the railway engine on the track with a large crane" without "to" after "on"?
    Would it be wrong if one said,"They run on the street" in sense of "They run out onto the street"?
    Could "They run on the road" mean "They run onto the road" and "They were on the road and have a run on there?
  22. Andygc

    Andygc Senior Member

    British English
    If you are moving from one place to another, and your finishing point is on the other place, then you say onto. All of your examples require onto.

    If you want to mean "They were on the road and have a run on there" they are not moving onto the road, they are already on it, so onto would be wrong.
  23. yakor Senior Member

    Yes, when someone is on something and does something on it, I'm not going to use "onto", of course. I'm just not quite sure that when someone changes the position one must use always "onto" or "into". I don't mean the idiomatic use of "into" (go into action, get into trouble..) I mean physical getting into something. (He run very quickly and he could get into(or in?) the bus.
    Put this book onto(or on?) the shelf. Put it onto (or on?) the box?)
    He jumped on (or onto?)the roof.
    We have different endings of nouns in such cases in Russian. That is why using "onto" and "on" seems very confusing to me.
  24. PaulQ

    PaulQ Senior Member

    English - England
    He ran very quickly and he could get into(or in?) onto the bus. - He was not on the bus before and now he hopes he will be
    Put this book onto the shelf. - the book is not on the shelf but you ask that it will be.
    He jumped on the roof. - He was on the roof and he jumped up and down - he did not change his position
    He jumped onto the roof. - He was not on the roof when he started to jump but he landed on the roof.

    You will find that native speakers are not always careful with the <preposition +to> construction. However, you have to pass exams and so you should be.
  25. Forero Senior Member

    Houston, Texas, USA
    USA English
    Yes, they can, but it is hard to find examples because the meaning of "here" and "there" can include "(in)to"/"onto" (since they can be adverbs as well as pronouns), and "in" and "on" are more common than "into" and "onto".
    Yes, there are, but "I'm here, in" sounds strange. You can also say "Here I'm in", in which "in" cannot be a preposition.
  26. yakor Senior Member

    Forero,You mean that in any case like "in/into here" "on/onto there" it is possible to use only the adverbs "here" and "there". One could forget "in,on, into and onto"?
  27. Forero Senior Member

    Houston, Texas, USA
    USA English
    I mean that sometimes "here" (adverb) means "into here" or "onto here" and sometimes "in here" means "into here" and "on here" means "onto here". It depends on the context whether "into here" or "onto here" fits. The same goes for "there" instead of "here".

    And sometimes "in here" is a prepositional phrase (preposition + pronoun), and other times it is two separate adverbs. "Here" is not a noun just after "in", "into", "on", or "onto".

    Your original question is extremely broad since you are asking about four prepositions, at least two of which can also be adverbs, together with two words that can be pronouns or adverbs (and sometimes nouns too, but not in the combinations mentioned).

    I suggest you provide some context to narrow the topic to something we can explain without having to keep saying "sometimes" and "it depends".
  28. yakor Senior Member

    Put this book in this box. Could one say instead this the next,"Put this book in/into here" and "Put this book here". Is it possible to avoid "in/into here" in such cases? Could one use only "here/there"? "in/into here" and "in/into there" sound strange to me, when "in"('into) is a preposition.

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