Ipsos mori

Discussion in 'Lingua Latina (Latin)' started by wholey, Nov 2, 2005.

  1. wholey New Member

    UK, English
    A new company has been formed through the mergerof two large market research companies in the UK. Ipsos and MORI. These are both abbreviations, but I wondered if the phrase "Ipsos mori" actually means anything in Latin - or indeed any other language.
     
  2. Whodunit

    Whodunit Senior Member

    กรุงเทพมหานคร
    Deutschland ~ Deutsch/Sächsisch
    In my experience, "ipsos" means "them-/your-/ourselves" in the accusative case (plural, of course). However, I have no idea what "mori" should mean, except for "mulberry" in teh genitive case (singular). ;)

    Here's the masculine declension of the word "ipse" (-self):
    ipse
    ipsius
    ipsi
    ipsum
    ipso

    ipsi
    ipsorum
    ipsis
    ipsos
    ipsis

    Here's the declension of "morum" (mulberry):

    morum
    mori
    moro
    morum
    moro

    mora
    mororum
    moris
    mora
    moris

    PS: If anyone needs the macrons, please tell me and I will edit my post. ;)
     
  3. Fernando Senior Member

    Madrid
    Spain, Spanish
    I recall just a few words from my Latin, but mori take to my mind "mora" (uses, laws) and also remembers "morire" = to die.
     
  4. tab226 Member

    NYC
    US English
    In broken latin it could mean "dead themselves," which, depending on what the companies do, could be quite a propos!
     
  5. Fidelia Member

    NYC (school year) but from LI, NY
    United States, English
    Yes, dead themselves popped into my mind too. I am not sure that the accusative case would be used though for ipse.
    But the adjective "dead" is mortuus,a,um. I think masculine plural would be mortui (but not positive).
    But "morire" is the italian word for "to die." Mori, though is the present infinitive of the (deponent) verb morior (to die) So "Ipsos mori" could mean "Themselves to die" or, "To die themselves" but i am still not sure about ipse being in the accusative.
     
  6. DareRyan Senior Member

    Long Island, NY
    United States - English
    Mori is the present passive infinitive of Morior (I die [Morire])
    So I suppose
    "To be expired (Dead) themselves"

    Albeit, it is a fairly awkward phrase. The pronoun ipsos should in my opinion be declined into the Nominative case.
     
  7. Fidelia Member

    NYC (school year) but from LI, NY
    United States, English
    morior, mori, mortuus sum is a deponent verb. They have passive forms, but active meanings (and so are translated to English in the active voice). Hence they are intransitive, because they cannot be put into the passive voice (have a passive meaning). Mori is the (only) present infinitive, not the passive infinitive, because there can't be one for a deponent verb, because they are characteristically intransitive.
     
  8. se16teddy

    se16teddy Senior Member

    London but from Yorkshire
    English - England
  9. dinosky123 New Member

    Portuguese-Mozambican
    ...ipsos(your/self)+mori(customs/habits)=your habits !!:)
     
  10. Lamb67

    Lamb67 Senior Member

    China/Mandarin
  11. CapnPrep Senior Member

    France
    AmE
    I am pretty sure the original poster doesn't care anymore, or never really cared in the first place, but since this thread has been revived…

    The subject of an infinitive is in the accusative. So ipsos mori could mean "for themselves to die" or "for you yourselves to die" etc. (if you really want to interpret it as a Latin phrase).

    I'm afraid this is completely incorrect. Have a look at the declension of mos here.
     
  12. XiaoRoel

    XiaoRoel Senior Member

    Vigo (Galiza)
    galego, español
    Es lo que parece ser: Ipsos MORI es una empresa del grupo inglés Ipsos. Será una casualidad (o quizás un juego lingüístico de los fundadores de la empresa, ¿quién lo sabe?) el que coincida con una oración sustantiva de infinitivo, ipsos mori, que significa (que) ellos mismos se mueren/morían.
    Gracias a Lamb por el enlace clarificador.
     
  13. padraic1359 New Member

    english
    Ipsos mori can be translated as "They die" in Latin.
    At least according to a well known online translator!
    However there are people involved in this discussion who have a much better grasp of Latin than I do (which wouldn't be difficult)!
    Apparently ipsos Mori is a name formed by the merger of two companies Ipsos UK and Mori
    The company recently called me asking if I would take part in market research.
    I asked the gentleman about the significance of the name.
    He told me that he has been asked the same question hundreds of times and the various Latin meanings are just a coincidence.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2012
  14. padraic1359 New Member

    english
    I would like to add sometrhing to my last post.
    If you put Ipsos Mori into the the Google translator it comes out as "they die" in Latin.
    However it is my understanding that this is just a coincidence and the name is actually an acronym and "is nothing to do with dying", my mistake and my apologies to Ipsos Mori, which I believe is a renowned marketing company.
     
  15. Cagey post mod (English Only / Latin)

    California
    English - US
    The words do mean something in Latin.
    That does not mean that the company had that meaning in mind when they chose the name.

    However, I am sure that many people have wondered about the Latin meaning when they saw the name. :)
     
  16. wandle

    wandle Senior Member

    London
    English - British
    ipsos mori, considered as a Latin accusative and infinitive (that is, an indirect statement) means:
    'that [they] themselves are dying' or:
    'that [you] yourselves are dying' or:
    'that [we] ourselves are dying'.

    How could this occur in a Latin sentence? Imagine a group of legionaries who advance in a suicidal rearguard action against a vastly superior enemy force, in order to buy time for the rest of their side to escape.

    To describe their state of mind as they are engulfed by the foe and the blows rain down, you could say:
    sperant suos evasuros; se ipsos mori sciunt.
    'They hope their men will get away: they know that they themselves are dying.'
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2012
  17. Condessa

    Condessa Member

    Bogotá, Colombia
    Colombia, Español
    I agree with CapnPrep and Wandle: the accusative is not odd at all.

    For the verb is an infinitive, this is not a principal sentence, ergo it has no complete sense (so cannot mean "They die"). Anyway, we could suppose a verb (like "fit") is missing, and build a sentence with complete sense: "It happens (fit) that they themselves die."

    Nevertheless, Latin infinitive works eventually as an imperative. In this case, this could be read as a principal sentence: "¡Que ellos mismos mueran!" (Sorry, I don't know how to say that in English: "May themselves die!", maybe?)

    [Yes, it's an acronym and it's not intended to mean anything. But it is sooo funny to make it mean something. Finally, we all study Latin just for fun.]
     
  18. In Vino Veritas New Member

    italiano
    Yes,it could mean "They die".There are similar grammatical constructions.

    Vidi ego iactatas, mota face ,crescere flammas , Et rursus nullo concutiente, mori .

    Ovid Amores I-II.
     

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