is more controlled / be more controlled

Quiendijo

Senior Member
Castellano - Argentina
Hola :)

Quisiera saber si puedo decir esta expresión de estas dos formas:

1. We should insist that advertising is more controlled.

2. We should insist that advertising be more controlled.

Gracias :)
 
  • TheCrociato91

    Senior Member
    Italian - Northern Italy
    Hola.

    Verbos como "demand", "insist", "suggest", "request" ... en inglés pueden regir lo que algunos llaman "mandative subjunctive" (subjuntivo de mandato), que se usa sobre todo en el inglés norteamericano mientras que en el británico suele recurrirse con más frecuencia al presente simple o a estructuras con "should".

    Dicho lo anterior, ambas estructuras, en principio, son correctas (si bien posiblemente con matices ligeramente distintos).

    En tus ejemplos, la primera sería más común en el inglés britanico (juntamente con otra versión con "should be..."); la segunda en el inglés de Estados Unidos.

    También hay otros hilos sobre este tema, por si te interesa; por ejemplo este: an alternative care model that include necessary standards (subjunctive)

    Como siempre, es mejor esperar las opiniones de los nativos.
     

    Quiendijo

    Senior Member
    Castellano - Argentina
    Verbos como "demand", "insist", "suggest", "request" ... en inglés pueden regir lo que algunos llaman "mandative subjunctive" (subjuntivo de mandato), que se usa sobre todo en el inglés norteamericano mientras que en el británico suele recurrirse con más frecuencia al presente simple o a estructuras con "should".
    Thank you. I'm just working on those verbs when trigging the subjunctive.

    I've been a reading an article which uses these different structures (also the one that includes 'should') and it was odd to me.

    1. Protests groups are insisting that some of our money be redistributed to the third world.
    2. Trade unions demand that the Prime Minister reduce the working week.
    3.
    They are also suggesting that people should share work and thus reduce unemployement.
    4. We should insist that advertising is more controlled.

    According to your explanation, I have asummed that the author used these different structures to demonstrate that the three ways are correct. What do you think?
    It's worth clarifying that I've taken these expressions from a British students' book and the reading is formal.

    By the way, the thread and link you provided me were very useful!
     

    gengo

    Senior Member
    American English
    1. Protests groups are insisting that some of our money be redistributed to the third world.
    2. Trade unions demand that the Prime Minister reduce the working week.
    3.
    They are also suggesting that people should share work and thus reduce unemployment.
    4. We should insist that advertising is more controlled.
    First, let's address your initial question.

    1. We should insist that advertising is more controlled.
    2. We should insist that advertising be more controlled.

    Both of these are correct, but the meanings are different. In 1, the speaker is indicating that advertising is indeed more controlled, and that "we" should insist that this is true. In 2, the subjunctive indicates that the speaker wants something to be done, which in this case is insisting that somebody control advertising to a greater extent. My hunch is that the writer made the common mistake of using the indicative, when in fact that context calls for the subjunctive (so #4 above is incorrect). Most native English speakers don't understand the subjunctive mood, so you will often see such mistakes.

    Let me give better examples of the difference I mentioned.

    He insists that his car is kept clean. Insiste en que su coche se mantiene limpio.
    He insists that his car be kept clean. Insiste en que su coche se mantenga limpio.
     

    Quiendijo

    Senior Member
    Castellano - Argentina
    My hunch is that the writer made the common mistake of using the indicative, when in fact that context calls for the subjunctive (so #4 above is incorrect)
    Interesting and confusing at the same time :confused:
    I feel I can't trust books

    As for #4, Should we say?
    We should insist that advertising be more controlled - Deberíamos insistir en que la publicidad esté más controlada (Se controle más)
     

    gengo

    Senior Member
    American English
    Interesting and confusing at the same time :confused:
    I feel I can't trust books

    As for #4, Should we say?
    We should insist that advertising be more controlled - Deberíamos insistir en que la publicidad esté más controlada (Se controle más)
    That is how I understand it, based on the previous three statements and the overall context. I don't know what kind of book this is, but even books contain errors.

    I am quite certain about the grammar here, but you should know that there are two things here: one is what is grammatically correct, and another is what native speakers actually say. As I mentioned, most NESs don't fully understand the subjunctive, and therefore use it incorrectly. And even those of us who care about language often choose to break the rules and use the indicative because we think it sounds more natural that way.
     

    Quiendijo

    Senior Member
    Castellano - Argentina
    The book is 'Opportunities - Upper intermediate - Pearson Longman'. And the reading is about potencial things that should be done in our consuming society, so the present simple does not seem to fit.

    Thank you!
     

    Bevj

    Allegra Moderata (Sp/Eng, Cat)
    English (U.K.)
    I think I'm right in saying that in AE the subjunctive is much more alive than in BrE, where it has largely fallen into disuse and many people don't even understand what it is.
    But it is still used in some circumstances and I think your sentence is one of them.
    We should insist that advertising be more controlled. :tick:
    As gengo says, you will probably frequently hear 'is more controlled'
     

    Rodal

    Senior Member
    Castellano (Chile)
    I like option two, with the subjuntive form: Debiéramos insistir en que la publicidad sea más controlada.
     
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